Lithium battery upgrade charging question

[kevsbox]

Hi All

This winter I finally plan to get around to replacing my leisure batteries with a lithium battery (something like the 300ah lifepo4 battery) while keeping the starter battery (only 2 years old). What solar charge controller do people recommend for such a setup?

Kev

 

[yoda]

I find the Victron SmartSolar MPPT controllers are excellent and not over priced.
Have a read here:
Solar charge controllers | Victron Energy

Yoda

 

[geem]

Hi All

This winter I finally plan to get around to replacing my leisure batteries with a lithium battery (something like the 300ah lifepo4 battery) while keep the stater (only 2 years old). What solar charge controller do people recommend for such a setup?

Kev

Victron is the way to go. You will also need a DC/DC charger to charge from the engine battery and a Victron Smart Shunt. Keeping it all Victron has its advantages as it will talk to each other via bluetooth

 

[lustyd]

While I agree that Victron are nice, I’m losing faith that they’re good. Many of their designs cause significant interference and/or feedback.
Symptoms include poor VHF reception and incorrect RPM on the tachometer. While Victron have acknowledged this on some models, they’ve done very little to fix it and in some cases new models are worse than old.
Whether any other make is better I couldn’t say as ours is all Victron. In theory some ferrites could sort the issues.

 

[geem]

While I agree that Victron are nice, I’m losing faith that they’re good. Many of their designs cause significant interference and/or feedback.
Symptoms include poor VHF reception and incorrect RPM on the tachometer. While Victron have acknowledged this on some models, they’ve done very little to fix it and in some cases new models are worse than old.
Whether any other make is better I couldn’t say as ours is all Victron. In theory some ferrites could sort the issues.

Funnily enough, I have just been playing around with some ferrites on my Raymarine network. I am getting a glitch about every 30mins that says no speed. I think i may have some interference.
I agree that Victron isn't perfect, but no other kit has such good interconnectivity, warranty or price

 

[mattonthesea]

Having recently replaced a charge controller with a Victron mppt I agree that they are streets ahead. The only issue I am having is that I can't work out how how to read the BT output from my raspberry pi using openplotter. But that's me! It's a doddle with the phone.

I have some Sterling stuff which works well but the settings involve pressing buttons A and B at the same time whilst counting for 15 seconds whilst the hallelujah chorus.

 

[mjcp]

Having recently replaced a charge controller with a Victron mppt I agree that they are streets ahead. The only issue I am having is that I can't work out how how to read the BT output from my raspberry pi using openplotter. But that's me! It's a doddle with the phone.

I have some Sterling stuff which works well but the settings involve pressing buttons A and B at the same time whilst counting for 15 seconds whilst the hallelujah chorus.

The new/modern Sterling stuff has done away with the hop, skip and jump

 

[lustyd]

I agree that Victron isn't perfect, but no other kit has such good interconnectivity, warranty or price

Agree with that part, it it nice to use.

The warranty is not so good in the UK as we can’t actually contact Victron. BMS are happy to replace broken ones but anything more and they go to radio silence.

 

[geem]

Agree with that part, it it nice to use.

The warranty is not so good in the UK as we can’t actually contact Victron. BMS are happy to replace broken ones but anything more and they go to radio silence.

I have any faulty kit replaced whether USA or UK. all through dealers

 

[pyrojames]

I had a Cerbo GX fail during Covid. Victron replaced straight away. It integrated simply with everything and is still running inverter, solar and BMS, and I can monitor remotely.

 

[lustyd]

I have any faulty kit replaced whether USA or UK. all through dealers

And what if it’s not faulty but also doesn’t work as expected? That’s where the issues start. In the US you connect to Victron who make the stuff and write the softward. Here we connect to BMS who do neither and seem to have zero resources aside from the manuals I already have access to.

 

[kevsbox]

Thanks for the info, the Victron does look good but I do have 1 question. My current controller has two battery outlets, 1 for house batteries and 1 for the starter battery. From what I see on the SmartSolar MPPT
there is Batt, PV and Load. So am I correct in thinking -
BATT - Starter battery
PV - Solar Panels
LOAD - Lithium battery

Is that correct?

​

 

[vas]

Thanks for the info, the Victron does look good but I do have 1 question. My current controller has two battery outlets, 1 for house batteries and 1 for the starter battery. From what I see on the SmartSolar MPPT
there is Batt, PV and Load. So am I correct in thinking -
BATT - Starter battery
PV - Solar Panels
LOAD - Lithium battery

Is that correct?

​

no, don't think so. Victron MPPTs are for one set of batteries only.
IIRC, load is if you want something to run only on (excessive )solar power

V.

PS. +1 on Victron kit, but not using BT, only wired connections from MPPT and MultiplusII to the VenusOS running raspberry pi that operates and manages the lot and the lifepo4 battery bms. Only thing missing is engine alternator to lifepo4 bank throttling (whatever that's going to be DC-DC converter I guess)

 

[mattonthesea]

Thanks for the info, the Victron does look good but I do have 1 question. My current controller has two battery outlets, 1 for house batteries and 1 for the starter battery. From what I see on the SmartSolar MPPT
there is Batt, PV and Load. So am I correct in thinking -
BATT - Starter battery
PV - Solar Panels
LOAD - Lithium battery

Is that correct?

​

No, load is for things like having a light in your garage. Unlikely you'll use it on a boat. Only one charging output

 

[chris-s]

Renogy kit is definitely worth considering, I have quite a bit of their kit. The Renogy OnBoard device combines mppt charger and dc-dc in one box. Connected to your house and engine battery it will make use of both solar and alternator to charge house and engine batteries.
I have this paired with 600ah of their lithium’s, their shunt and the ‘one core’ module which provides a display and remote access when connected to a wireless network.

 

[geem]

Renogy kit is definitely worth considering, I have quite a bit of their kit. The Renogy OnBoard device combines mppt charger and dc-dc in one box. Connected to your house and engine battery it will make use of both solar and alternator to charge house and engine batteries.
I have this paired with 600ah of their lithium’s, their shunt and the ‘one core’ module which provides a display and remote access when connected to a wireless network.

Be careful of Renogy kit. It has a terrible reputation across the pond. I had problems with some of their flexible panels. I reported it to their customer service in the UK. I got the total run around. The customer service experience was awful. By comparison, the Victron customer service has been very good

 

[kevsbox]

Thanks for all the feedback on this matter, not as simple as I first thought but this is how I (think) I see it, Below is my current setup with 3 batteries (the starter is not as in the image, it is a proper starter battery)


The next image is how I think things fit together (feel free to correct me)


Does this look correct, am I missing something and how do I plug shore power into this, currently we have the Micro-Tec battery charger as shown?
We also have this

But I assume with the starter battery now isolated this is no longer required?

Cheers

Kev

 

[geem]

Thanks for all the feedback on this matter, not as simple as I first thought but this is how I (think) I see it, Below is my current setup with 3 batteries (the starter is not as in the image, it is a proper starter battery)
View attachment 200878

The next image is how I think things fit together (feel free to correct me)

View attachment 200879
Does this look correct, am I missing something and how do I plug shore power into this, currently we have the Micro-Tec battery charger as shown?
We also have this
View attachment 200880
But I assume with the starter battery now isolated this is no longer required?

Cheers

Kev

Nearly, but not quite.
The alternator feeds the engine battery. The DC/DC goes from engine battery to lithium battery.

You will be better getting a lithium specific shorepower charger to feed the lithium bank.

 

[geem]

You also need to concider which DC/DC you are going to install. Don't choose one that is more than 50% of the rating of the alternator. You could opt for the Victron XS as they are programmable but a lot more money. I use a couple of 17A 24v Victron DC/DC chargers on 60A 24v alternator and it seems to work fine but is probably on the limit.

 

[Moodysailor]

You will also need a DC-DC charger if you are upgrading to Lithium. This won't be a universally accepted reply, but you can get combined MPPT solar charge controller and DC-DC charger from Renogy or Eco Worthy that will save £££ and space over Victron if you want to get setup. Yes, Victron has conectivity and bells & whistles and arguably has better quality, it is the Apple of the marine electical world and is priced accordingly.