Limited extra's

[marchhare]

Limited extra\'s

As opposed to Steve who has a huge list of extra's I am looking to make a simple choice. For around £750 I can have either a colour chartplotter, or an autohelm or if I save for a while longer a radar.

Up the pub with 2 other sailing firends and asked "what would be your choice then". Did not get any agreement as to which was the considered the priority. No one had all three fitted to make an experienced decision for either a favourite or a discard. Comments like "Fog frightens me F**tless", "know exactly where you are at any time without having to plot position" and "it is the equivalent of another crew member" for each device were typical.

For those who have all three, if you had to either discard one or choose only one what would it be?

 

[webcraft]

Re: Limited extra\'s

Depends on what you want to do.

If you're doing any long trips short handed then an autohelm is a must. The joys of helming quickly wear off, particularly during cold night watches under power when it is much nicer to huddle under the sprayhood, taking a quick look every five minutes. It also means you can plot a position, put the kettle on for the start of the next watch etc. Of course, if you only do short trips and always have a big crew who are queueing up to helm then your view might be different.

Radar is of limited value IMHO compared to its cost. How many hours a year do you spend in the shipping lanes in fog, and do you have the battery capacity to run it? Would you deliberately set out in fog if you had radar? It also adds weight aloft.

Chart plotters are nice, but you can know where you are all the time with paper charts and a £100 hand-held GPS.

If I had to do without one of the three it would be the radar. If I could only have one it would be the autohelm. It is also the cheapest of the three, so I could afford the hand-held GPS as well, or some other gadget of similar price.

- Nick


BlueMoment.Com
http://www.bluemoment.com

 

[Skyva_2]

Re: Limited extras

For my money -

Forget the colour chartplotter (though you don't say whether you have at least a H/H GPS). A Yeoman does all I want.

Autohelm is useful, but I could do without it.

Having made a Channel crossing this year when only the shipping lanes were in fog, radar is what I would go for. Its not the frequency of the dangerous situation, you have to multiply it by the severity of the risk. Very few people set out in fog, many more have to cope with when it arrives.

Keith

 

[jimi]

Re: Limited extra\'s

I would'nt bother with a £750 colour chartplotter at all .. I'd get a decent b/w one. However as has been said elsewhere much depends on you're type of sailing. If your sailing is similar to mine where you're shorthanded a lot (even with a boatful of family!)) with the occasional trip across shipping lanes I'd definitely go fot the autopilot first & save up for a radar later. You wo'nt get much change out of £2000 when a radar is fitted with a screen where IMHO its required, at the helm. Then spend the money you've saved on not getting a colour chartplotter on some chart cartridges.

Jim

 

[peterb]

Re: Limited extra\'s

I can helm, even though it may be uncomfortable and boring. I can navigate using a paper chart (with or without GPS). I can't see in fog.

First priority radar. Second priority autohelm. Third (but a long way back) chartplotter.

 

[zefender]

Re: Limited extra\'s

Agree that it all depends on the kind of sailing you envisage. If I was going an long passages with a strong crew, then it would probably be the radar - longish passages, small crew, then the autopilot. Plotters are fab, but less essential than the other two.

I think I'd change the options a bit. The radar I'd buy new from ebay.com, at about half the price of the UK, inc tax and carraige. For the plotter, I'd think about a notebook PC nav system (assuming you have or can justify a notebook for other purposes).

 

[Mirelle]

Re: Limited extra\'s

Like you I dont have any of them but have sailed with all three.

I would certainly discard the chart plotter; you will still be carrying paper charts even if you have one and it is just another thing to go wrong; noting down a position on a paper chart is hardly difficult!

I fancy that for a fin keeled boat an autohelm may be more useful than for a long keeler; if you cannot let go of the tiller for a minute or two then one seems necessary. Conversely heavy long keelers, which will steer themsleves with a rope over the tiller, give autohelms an absolute caning and flatten the battery in no time.

Radar seems awfully nice, but the cheapest ones are very limited in what they do. More use off a rocky coast like Cornwall or West Scotland than off somewhere flat.

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: Limited extra\'s

My opinion.

I have had an Autohelm or equivalent on every boat I ever owned. On any passage over a few hours, and especially overnight, this equipment is the best investment available to conserve crew strength. On friends' boats I have helmed for extended periods in the dark and bad conditions and there is nothing worse for sapping energy. On our boat we now use a Windpilot whenever appropriate and carry two Autohelms.

I had a monochrome Garmin plotter and changed to a colour one a couple of years ago. It is by no means essential but it has been of great assistance on several occasions when disorientated in poor visiblity or difficult situations. The colour one is a big improvement over the mono. A radar could have helped in one of the situations but not the others. The plotter increases our enjoyment of the sailing and navigation, costs almost no battery power and is a highly regarded back-up to paper charts.

We have no radar but propose fitting one this winter. Despite sailing in the world's most busy shipping area there have been few occasions when we felt a radar to be needed. Like many other examples, no doubt we shall find plenty of currently unknown benefits from fitting it. Current consumption is a big consideration and a radar is not something that will operate continuously. The big exception is in fog, when we would be running the engine anyway.

 

[Guest]

Re: Limited extra\'s

I sail most weekends with my wife in the Solent area. This year we went across the channel. Our boat is a Jeanneau Fantasia - fin keel. Great boat but a little skittish in a seaway so when your shorthanded, this can become tiring. I don't have a plotter, pilot or radar. Prior to crossing the channel I rather sniffed at GPS and Plotters and thought that with the 2 of us, helming would be no problem - working on the Pardey principle of KISS. Obviously the fact that we are back makes that true - but Ohhhh was I thankful for the GPS in a heavy sea/F5 off of Pt de Barfleur when I didn't have time and the boat was moving to much to get an accurate fix sorted. We are now very seriously looking at plotters (colour are definitely much better but are pretty expensive - Garmin, Plastimo approx £800 inc charts)

I'm not sure how an autopilot would have coped but it would definitely have made for less work on the crossing itself - hence less knackered at the end.

I picked my weather window very carefully so I did not see or experience fog as a problem.

So I'd choose GPS/Plotter very closely followed by an autopilot and not bother with radar (probably at all).

Hope that's helpful

Geoff

 

[marchhare]

Re: Limited extra\'s

Thanks everyone for the replies, useful information. I left the question open so as not to limit opinions. I sail with my wife in the Solent and from Brighton to Weymouth as a cruising area with trips across to France picking the right weather window. Earlier this year on a cruise across to Cherbourg got caught in a real thick fog off the coast and eventually felt our way into the harbour. Could hear the ferries close by but never caught sight of one. Also on the way over the visibility was not brilliant in patches from mid channel.

We have a 4 year old Garmin hand held with an external power supply linked into a RD68 VHF to give us the DSC interface. If we'd had both radar and chartplotter the job would have been easier, with only two on board taking GPS pos, transferring to chart, checking course etc., in stressful situations is not easy as we all know. Of course the autohelm for the crossing would have been very useful and less tiring.

 

[JeremyF]

Re: Limited extra\'s

I went first for radar, as fog frightens me big time. However its pretty useless in the Solent, 'cos there is so much out there even when the fog descends.

Boat show aquisition plan tomorrow - autohelm.

Chartplotter - no plans. For a flybridge at 30 kts, I get the point. At 5 - 6 kts, I don't get it

<font color=blue>Jeremy Flynn/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif
Dawn Chorus</font color=blue>

 

[billmacfarlane]

Re: Limited extra\'s

My wife and I sail a 36' boat bought last November and the item we wouldn't be without is the Autohelm. It's used constantly not necessarily for helming on passage but for freeing up a second pair of hands for dropping the main or getting the crusing chute ready to hoist or getting a cuppa when sailing overnight with one up and one asleep. I've got a radar/charplotter but I've only used the radar crossing the Channel shipping lanes and then it was using MARPA to track ships in the lanes which is a job you can do with a hand bearing compass. I might change my mind in a fog though. The chartplotter is great fun especially when coastal sailing but I could live without it.

 

[JeremyF]

Re: Limited extra\'s

Well, I bought the Autohelm, together with a Rudder Reference Unit at SBS. See my posting on PBO as I'm trying to work out if I really need the latter.

At the show I spent quite a bit of time getting to understand the Yeoman Plotter. At £300, its a heck of a lot cheaper than a colour plotter, and at 5-6 kts, the few seconds it takes to plot a fix is frankly irrelevant.

Have we got any Yeoman users on the forum?

<font color=blue>Jeremy Flynn/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif
Dawn Chorus</font color=blue>

 

[pkb]

Re: Limited extra\'s

When I bought my current boat five years ago I had a Furuno radar and Simrad chart plotter fitted. The boat came with a B&G autopilot. If I had to lose one it would be the chartplotter wonderful thought it is. The autopilot is a great aid to relaxation but it also allows me to attend to other tasks while maintaining my course. Twice this year on cross Channel passages - and several times in previous years - we have been caught out in fog mid Channel, often in the shipping lanes. Without radar I would have been terror struck.

Your question, which one would you lose, reminds me of the one about wives and mistresses.

If your wife and mistress were both standing on a cliff edge and you were told that you had to push one of them over which would it be.

Answer: the mistress.

Why? Because she would understand.

Peter

Peter

 

[tome]

Re: Limited extra\'s

I've been using a Yeoman for the past 2 seasons and would rate it more highly than any other form of plotter. It uses paper charts and allows you to plot position in seconds, plus useful range & bearing calculations. If all fails I still have a paper chart with a trail of positions and can take over manually from last position. Mine has connection in cockpit and chart table so I can navigate without going below.

However, autopilot is the number 1 extra for self and wife allowing either of us to attend to sails, put on kettle or huddle under sprayhood without disturbing the off-watch. A true extra crew and the first thing I'd fit or replace. We also have radar, but although we're glad of it on occasions (like the F9 Solent 2 weeks ago when we had zero vis and used it to creep into Chichester), I wouldn't consider it essential.

I've had a fair bit of experience of channel shipping lanes in fog and it can be a terrifying ordeal. Perhaps in these situations I might reverse priorities in favour of radar, but it's a rare event compared to the autopilot which I use every trip, even if only for brief periods.

 

[tcm]

Re: Limited extra\'s

if i cd only have one, i'd have the autohelm and limit cruising to avoid fog/night as far as poss. Unlesss on a boat with loads of crew, in which case I'd have radar.

I do have all three, and could do with out the chartplotter as a 100 quid gps does almost the same job

 

[Forty_Two]

Re: Limited extra\'s

Agree Yoeman is fantastic. Cruise at 9kn on Grand Banks & been using it since they first sold them. Cant beat using paper charts, more fun anway. Got the update to link to radar which helps as well.

Best thing is uploading waypoints to gps. No errors in inputting. Put the puck on the chart, push button & its done. V accurate esp with dgps & correct datum set etc.

 

[Joe_Cole]

Re: Limited extra\'s

I've got the Yeoman and find it great. Cheaper than a plotter and no need to spend money on cartridges. Its quick and easy to use and links up easily to my GPS. But, you should check this when you buy one, not all GPS units are compatible.

I ended up with the "Sport" unit which can only use the chart folded twice (i.e. quarter size), but its got the advantage of being able to be used anywhere. If you are happy just using it on the chart table go for the standard unit, which is also cheaper.

According to the handbook you can link up the Yeoman with tiller pilot as well as GPS. As I haven't got a tiller pilot I can't help witht this though!

Regards

Joe

 

[Guest]

Re: Limited extra\'s

A couple of weeks ago I played blind man's buff into Camaret with 100m visibility.

The combination of GPS and autopilot meant we could steer an exact course (ie: "port 2 degrees") was no problem in finding the end of the breakwater. I've even flown by wire up the Needles Channel, the lighthouse wasn't working at the time, to add to the fun! Radar would have been nice to confirm things.

 

[Guest]

Re: Limited extra\'s

Short handed
1st. Autohelm. 2nd. Radar. 3rd Radar, 4th Radar 99th Chartplotter

Offshore with more than 2 on board
1st. Radar 2nd. Radar. 3rd Radar, 4th Radar Autohelm. 99th Chartplotter


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