Liferaft - Valise or Canister

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BlueSkyNick

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I need to purchase a raft in the not too distant future. This year we've had the benefit of a 'borrowed' raft from somebody whose boat is out of action, but we will have to return it soon. This has started me thinking about what to buy.

I find the valise version to be quite heavy, even as a reasonably fit middle aged person, so for SWMBO to lug the raft up the companionway in an emergency would be totally unthinkable. Its owner stows it in the forepeak, whereas we have kept it in the main saloon - its not really in the way with only 2 of us on board.

Generally, its only an extra £50-100 for a canister version which can be permenantly mounted on deck or the pushpit, hence much easier to launch when the need arises. This seems to be more than worth the extra money, IMO.

Are there other benefits to a valise, which I am missing?

<hr width=100% size=1>It's frustrating when you know all the answers, but nobody bothers to ask you the questions.
 
If you've got a good position for the canister then thats the best bet IMHO. Problem is most modern boats don't have anywhere to lash one, unless you fill up the scoop stern on your AWB and I'm not that happy about people standing on it.

But why buy one? It's probably cheaper to rent (from Suffolk Sailing charge £355 for a 4man per year, for example), especially if you only want it for the summer or for a few longish trips. No servicing costs then.

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I have a valise, and it is also very heavy. It lives in the cockpit sole locker, which used to house the inflatable.

A canister is on my buying list, partly because it can be mounted on the coachroof somewhere.

Mj

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simple choice: if you keep it in a locker, get a valise. if on deck, get a canister.

canisters are extremely difficult to lift as there is nothing to get a grip on. a valise could be punctured if not sowed securely in a locker.

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IMO the prime requirement is to have it ready to launch quickly by the weakest crew member on board, we sail 2 up 99% of the time so that probably is SWMBO though sometimes I'm not so sure. For that reason, for me it has to be a cannister and mounted in a cradle on the pushpit, launching is a simple matter of releasing the strap and giving it a shove. Mounting on deck in a cradle still requires considerable effort to launch it by lifting it over the rails, the lifting could be done at all the wrong angles and you could add a bad back to your problems too! Another reason for having the raft up top is in the case of fire below, this might prevent you getting access to one stowed in the cabin, by a similar token if it is mounted on the coachroof, it could be immediately over any fire down below. Cockpit locker stowage might be OK for a small valise raft, but I would still worry about lifting it (and remembering to tie it on!) overboard, not to mention all the rubbish that will inevitably end up on top of it in the locker.

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>
 
My set up is for a canister, that when released, can be pushed over the stern by the weakest person onboard. The fact that this is relatively easy to steal compared to one that is hidden away is irrelevant . I do have it padlocked in harbour, and remember to remove the padlock when you go to sea

Besides if it gets knicked, I can get a newer replacement /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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Once again Robin, I agree with all your points.

Particularly, lifting by SWMBO, fire, clutter in locker etc, which is why a canister is the obvious choice for me. Hadn't thought about the nickability though, but that's not a huge problem where we are moored (touch wood!).

Second problem with our cockpit storage is that there is only one very large locker on the port side. Along with the diesel tank, inflatable dinghy etc, we suffer from the infamous Moody list, so I would not want to add the raft too.

<hr width=100% size=1>It's frustrating when you know all the answers, but nobody bothers to ask you the questions.
 
Most cannister cradles come with padlockable straps, you just need to remember to take the padlock off before you leave the marina.

The main problem with a cannister on the Pushpit is that they can easily get knocked off or damaged. This is more common than you would think, and we've personally written off two horseshoes in the last year, (Its the piles you know...)which is why our raft is in its manufacturer-designated spot on the cabin roof.

You see, there's no simple answer...

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Canister, on aft deck (elderly wooden yacht with no guard rails or "pushpit") with hydrostatic release.

If you are going to spend a lot of money on a raft, you may as well have it where the weakest crew member (a child, in our case) can launch it, and arranged so that case need it will launch itself. I reckon the biggest dangers are fire and collision, neither of which would allow time to faff about exhuming a valise from below decks or from a locker.

There is a strong case for a valise if you have the type of yacht (eg some 1/4 tonners) which is designed to take a valise in the cockpit when under way, stowing it in port, but otherwise I would not be keen on one.

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?
 
Mines a 4 man Zodiac in a valise. I keep it very handy in the shallow cockpit locker. It's not that light (but then not desperately heavy either, and if it were ever needed, I'm sure the rush of adrenaline would get it deployed - oops, there goes my back again!!)

In my opinion, the best would be a canister mounted on the transom.

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4-man. Although we have 6-berth boat, I prefer to take no more than 4 especially on a longer passage where a raft might be required.

Also, previous threads have suggested a 4man is better for 4 people or less, rather than have excessive space such as in a 6-man.

<hr width=100% size=1>It's frustrating when you know all the answers, but nobody bothers to ask you the questions.
 
Liferaft theft seems to be unusual ...

... certainly compared with dinghies and outboards.

Because they have to be professionally serviced periodically, when S/Ns will be checked, liferafts are of comparatively low interest to professional thieves. The bulkiness and unmanageability of a canister, and the possibility it will explode if it has to be roughly handled, puts off the opportunistic thief. A deterrent padlock is generally adequate.

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Our cradle has a S/S strap and padlock, some club boats though had a local supplier make up some very nice S/S hinged cradles with padlocks, very substantial. In our case the pushpit mounting is over the stern scoop and is protected from damage, though we had the same arrangement on our W33 (no scoop) without problems.

We chose too to go for a 6 man (sorry person) raft even though we are just 2. I'm not convinced that foundering in heavy seas is the most likely reason for launching the raft, that could be fire or collision with a sunken object, and there is no room IMO in a small raft for people let alone if one is injured, nor room for any extra grab bags, water etc. Now wait for the criticism!

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>
 
Totally agree with your reasoning. the need is for a double floor and some method inside the raft for the occupants to keep their weight distributed around the raft. 4 people in a 4 "person" raft in a hot climate would be torture, and long term survival in a raft would not be easy if you are all on top of each other. Personnaly I believe a yacht should have a raft big enough for the number of berths.

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I've had bothe but reckon the canister wins on points unless, like the Amel and some Beneteaus you have a liferaft stowage locker in the counter.
With the full complement in a liferaft it's sort of cosy/claustrophobic, however thanks to COSPAS/SARSAT mean time from SOS to rescue is down from 8 days (pre-satellite) to just over 8 hours.
Angus Primrose used to reckon that a 4-man raft was the ideal - if you had more on board they took it turns to hang on outside - there's bags of reserve buoyancy in a raft.
I reckon a properly mounted valise is the best - but beware it being too easily self-launching, a fatality off a Beneteau in Biscay 5/6 years ago was due to just that.
Choose a reputable make - Beaufort, Avon or BfA, stories of ones which dissolve when introduced to water are not infrequent and make sure you have an inflatable floor and, preferably, a full SOLAS pack.

Personally, having experienced a few hours in a liferaft in a seaway, I'd willingly choose drowning rather than enter one again.

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AGree 4 people in a 4-person raft in a hot climate would be torture - it's the same reason that makes it better to have 4 people in a 4-person raft in the cold rather than a 6-man, ie they are sharing body heat.

For our sailing which is generally confined to the English Channel, we are more likely to need the raft when the weather is too cold, rather than hot.

<hr width=100% size=1>It's frustrating when you know all the answers, but nobody bothers to ask you the questions.
 
I agree about the faffing - ORC and RORC regulations require the liferaft to be over the guardrails in less than 15 seconds - not possible when stowed below.

The old boat has a dedicated liferaft locker on deck - no clutter and secure. The new boat will have a 4man (actually two) canister(s) lashed down - with a race crew it is fair enough to assume someone capable of cutting the lashings.

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How much does it cost to maintain a 4 man in a valise?

Is there an average figure, is it always 2 years?

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

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