LiFePo4 small battery - anyone tried one?

[GHA]

I've a little 12v sealed lead acid onboard which gets a lot of use, but probably a bit knackered by now. Used for fiddling with arduino/raspberry pi gadgets, testing electronics, music ashore etc. So maybe time to go a bit more high tech - so anyone actually tried one of these?
LiFePo4 Battery 12.8V Lithium-Ion Iron Phosphate 12V Deep Cycle Heavy Duty | eBay

Looks OK, protection built in and price is OK but any good?

TIA

 

[Zing]

I have one in the dink to start my outboard. Also in my motorbike. All is well.

 

[bedouin]

I have one in the dink to start my outboard. Also in my motorbike. All is well.

With a Max discharge current of 12A that must be a pretty small motorbike

 

[Zing]

With a Max discharge current of 12A that must be a pretty small motorbike

They are a little bigger than the one in the picture. Actually I checked. My dinghy one is twice the size, but the bike battery is about that size. It works OK. Lithium batteries have a massive discharge capacity, so a much higher starting current than lead. It is way higher than the 12A rating. More like 50A at a guess.

 

[Refueler]

LiFe Are actually a very sturdy alternative to many batterys - BUT take care about charging.

As with all Lithium Ion based batterys - they do not take kindly to trickle charge when full - we use them in RC models as well as the more common LiPo ... and we use programmable chargers that detect and shut off at correct level.

LiFe are capable of relatively deep discharge and can be charged at reasonably high rates - but never take them down to near zero ...

Before installing .... its worth reading up on Do's and Dont's to make sure you get best use. Sites such as Battery University are good for info.
Just because Fred down the road uses one and has for xxxx - doesn't mean its best way or safe. Lithium batteys can whack a punch if badly connected !

 

[GHA]

Just hit the buy button, so will see. Hope Ryan air realise it's OK in hand luggage....

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Just hit the buy button, so will see. Hope Ryan air realise it's OK in hand luggage....

It's not Ryanair that will be the problem, but airport security. They misheard George Bush's wish to make "war on terrorism" and instead make war on tourism

 

[GHA]

Frequently I come through with loads of ebay wires and electronic boards & components, they never bat an eyelid for that.

 

[Zing]

Just hit the buy button, so will see. Hope Ryan air realise it's OK in hand luggage....

I flew with mine in carry on. As it is LiFePo it is safer than a laptop battery. Probably not allowed though according to their rules.

 

[Skylark]

LiFe Are actually a very sturdy alternative to many batterys - BUT take care about charging.

As with all Lithium Ion based batterys - they do not take kindly to trickle charge when full - we use them in RC models as well as the more common LiPo ... and we use programmable chargers that detect and shut off at correct level.

LiFe are capable of relatively deep discharge and can be charged at reasonably high rates - but never take them down to near zero ...

Before installing .... its worth reading up on Do's and Dont's to make sure you get best use. Sites such as Battery University are good for info.
Just because Fred down the road uses one and has for xxxx - doesn't mean its best way or safe. Lithium batteys can whack a punch if badly connected !

Just to reinforce the message about charging caution. A member of my model aero club recently had a garage fire attributed by the Fire Brigade to his unattended LiPo charging. Total loss and his house insurance has refused to pay. I've also seen a few models totally destroyed on the flying field. Always RTFM and charge in a fire-safe container.

 

[pcatterall]

LiFe Are actually a very sturdy alternative to many batterys - BUT take care about charging.

As with all Lithium Ion based batterys - they do not take kindly to trickle charge when full - we use them in RC models as well as the more common LiPo ... and we use programmable chargers that detect and shut off at correct level.

LiFe are capable of relatively deep discharge and can be charged at reasonably high rates - but never take them down to near zero ...

Before installing .... its worth reading up on Do's and Dont's to make sure you get best use. Sites such as Battery University are good for info.
Just because Fred down the road uses one and has for xxxx - doesn't mean its best way or safe. Lithium batteys can whack a punch if badly connected !

Just looking at the 100AH model at £500+. That's 7 times what I just paid for my latest lead acids but far more useable power if run down to (say?) 10% and the claimed 50 times life expectancy. I will certainly look again when the latest ones fail. ( the weight reduction will help as well!)

 

[Refueler]

LiFe are actually as safe as a normal Lead Acid without the acid of course. As long as charge regime is kept as stated in directions - then there should be no problem.

A LiPo though is a different ball game and if it should decide to have a 'day' it is a self sustaining 2000 C burn ... basically you cannot extinguish with normal means.

I note that battery linked in OP's post says it has a smart board on it and has protection against over discharge and over charge ... that's good ... so why not. Its a step up from the SLA ...

 

[GHA]

Just to reinforce the message about charging caution. A member of my model aero club recently had a garage fire attributed by the Fire Brigade to his unattended LiPo charging. Total loss and his house insurance has refused to pay. I've also seen a few models totally destroyed on the flying field. Always RTFM and charge in a fire-safe container.

Different batteries - Lithium Ion & Lithium Iron Phosphate are very different beasts.
If you're really worried about lithium ion then charge your laptop/phone/tablet/camera in a fire-safe container.

BatteryStuff Articles | Overview of the Different Types of Lithium Batteries on the Market

The LiFePO4 batteries are the safest type of Lithium batteries as they will not overheat, and even if punctured they will not catch on fire. The cathode material in LiFePO4 batteries is not hazardous, and so poses no negative health hazards or environmental hazards. Due to the oxygen being bonded tightly to the molecule, there is no danger of the battery erupting into flames like there is with Lithium-Ion. The chemistry is so stable that LiFePO4 batteries will accept a charge from a lead-acid configured battery charger.

 

[Refueler]

Lithium Ion in fact is a general name for Lithium based batterys and is not a single specific.

Its same as Hoover vs Vacuum Cleaner.

A Simple Comparison of Six Lithium-ion Battery Types

Problem is the consumer world and marketing have adopted the street terms and lost the definitive names for each type of Lithium Ion cell.

I agree that LiFe is a much safer battery than a LiPo - but in fact it can be forced to combust if badly treated. I have seen it personally. Again I agree that compared to a LiPo its a completely different ball game and far safer.

I would not advise using a Lead Acid charger though unless the battery has a charge control board built in. LiFe is a 3.6V cell and benefits from balanced style charging. That the board will do and also modify the charge in ...

Thousands ... millions of modellers use LiFe and LiPo - can easily advise those new to them.

 

[Graham376]

Just hit the buy button, so will see. Hope Ryan air realise it's OK in hand luggage....

Ryanair T & Cs - Lithium battery operated devices are accepted for carriage in the cabin once the battery does not excess 160 watt hours. If the battery exceeds 160wh the device will not be accepted for carriage.

If coming from UK, you could always use Algarve Express, they carry just about anything.

 

[Richard10002]

This guys videos are very educational wrt LiFePo4 and similar:

DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse

and this thread on the canal boat forum may also help:

Cheap LiFePO4 BMS?

Dr. Bob, Moomin Papa, and peterboat, seem to make the most valuable contributions.

My own contributions relate to a recent purchase of some second hand "12V" LiFePo4 batteries, (4 x 130Ah Valence XP), so I come at it from the "flying by the seat of your pants" school of Lithium batteries.

Turned them on last Saturday evening and haven't used enough power to need charging yet! With my LA bank, charging was at least every other day, for at least 3 hours, and often 5 or 6 hours.

So far so good.

 

[GHA]

This guys videos are very educational wrt LiFePo4 and similar:

DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse

and this thread on the canal boat forum may also help:

Cheap LiFePO4 BMS?

Dr. Bob, Moomin Papa, and peterboat, seem to make the most valuable contributions.

My own contributions relate to a recent purchase of some second hand "12V" LiFePo4 batteries, (4 x 130Ah Valence XP), so I come at it from the "flying by the seat of your pants" school of Lithium batteries.

Turned them on last Saturday evening and haven't used enough power to need charging yet! With my LA bank, charging was at least every other day, for at least 3 hours, and often 5 or 6 hours.

So far so good.

So where did you get the Valence XPs from? And how much?

Longer term it would be nice to have even 100Ah of LiFePO4 or carbon foam which aren't so suicidal as lead acid when it comes to not getting back to 100% charged so often for those cloudy weeks on the hook.

Already had success with 18650's used off ebay, about half of which were less than the AH hand written stickers but a good few were near good as new when load tested

 

[Richard10002]

I bought 4 from this guy. 3 at £301, with between 400 and 500 cycles shown, and one at £401 with 106 cycles shown.

So far so good, but I’m only a week in, with one full charge and nearly one discharge.

639 CYCLE - VALENCE LiFePO4 12v BATTERY 130Ah 1.6Kwh U27-12XP / LITHIUM SOLAR T4 | eBay

He’s in Market Drayton and wants cash not PayPal.

Nice guy, very honourable in his dealings with me.

 

[Poey50]

For anyone planning on installing LiFePO4 (LFP) as a domestic bank it may be worth snapping up one of these battery to battery chargers from Sterling. There are a few left. They are second hand, cosmetically marked, but tested, updated with software and are being sold with 6 months warranty for £129 which is a £200 reduction on new. Mine arrived today and the case is pretty much unmarked.

Battery to Battery Charger (used) 6 months warranty- several remaining

Sterling's documentation leaves a lot to be desired but Marine How To has a good article (and a very good pros and cons summary of LFP).
Understanding the Sterling Power Pro Batt Ultra - Battery to Battery Charger

With the alternator led to the starter battery and the B2B between the starter and house banks it is possible to have a lot of control over charging the LFP. This will also protect against large voltage dumps destroying the alternator if the battery managements system (BMS) shuts down the LFP.

There is still a lot to think about and I will probably avoid 'drop-in' LFPs despite their popularity because it isn't possible to know the quality of the BMS some of which may be dirt cheap and not up to the rigours of bouncing around in a boat. DIY options allow the choice of a high quality BMS but that still only protects the battery from catastrophe. I'd be glad for a BMS to save the battery but there is still the consideration of how to prevent the sudden loss of power to all electrical systems which are sacrificed to save the battery.

 

[GHA]

For anyone planning on installing LiFePO4 (LFP) as a domestic bank it may be worth snapping up one of these battery to battery chargers from Sterling. There are a few left. They are second hand, cosmetically marked, but tested, updated with software and are being sold with 6 months warranty for £129 which is a £200 reduction on new. Mine arrived today and the case is pretty much unmarked.

Oh that's tempting, Ta. Getting a little carried away here, might need a beer and mull over that, but would be handy - and don't even have a starter battery at the moment so need something.