Lifejackets when racing

Interestingly, under the 470 class rules, inflatable buoyancy devices (i.e. life jackets) are NOT permitted.
They are prohibited.

Presumably because there is a risk they will fail to inflate, or be punctured.
Also perhaps because it is not unusual in dinghies to end up in the water
several times during a race (particularly youngsters) and then they
would either have to
(a) choose not to inflate (if manual) - possibly dangerous
(b) race with a fully inflated life jacket - extremely cumbersome or
(c) deflate once they got back on board - making the next trip into the
water even more dangerous.

In short, ISAF Rules do insist on flotation for competitors in dinghies -
it is just that you didn't see the flotation devices in the photo.
 
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Lifejackets - not buoyancy aids. Most buoyancy aids I've seen/worn tend to turn you onto your face 'cos there's less buoyancy on the chest section.

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If you're suggesting that dinghy racers should wear 'lifejackets' then I cannot think that you have any experience of dinghy racing. The thing would be a positive menace when on board, catching on wires and ropes, and once in the water and inflated would make it virtually impossible to climb back on board.
Perhaps I'm falling for a wind-up here... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Is this a troll??

Buoyancy aids are eminently more sensible for activities like dinghy sailing (and whitewater canoeing, which is what I used to do). They offer pretty good upper body protection whist maintaining mobility, are good heat insulators and last, but certainly not least, are efficient flotation devices. The argument about floating face down appears occasionally but it has never been an issue that I have encountered. It also leads on to the question as to what sort of lifejacket should be used instead - auto-inflating? not in a tippy racing dinghy; pre inflated ? oh no; manually inflated ? if conscious then ok but what do you do after righting the dinghy? deflate and install a new CO2 cylinder before continuing with the race?? Of course there are always those old cork filled l/j's that the scouts used to use.....
 
Yes. I am suggesting that the minimum safety standards should require lifejackets to be worn at all times when sailing yachts and dinghies.

My reasons for this are that even the most experienced of sailors still die when they go overboard when they don't wear lifejackets ie Rab James. Even when they do if they don't wear crotch straps with the lifejackets they tend to die before they would have otherwise.

Surely we owe it to our children to teach them to be safe?
FWIW anyone coming sailing on my boat is required to wear a lifejacket or leave.
 
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No Its not a troll.


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I agree you are definately correct for children's offshore single handed dinghy races. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

In other circumstances inflatables would either be manuals never inflated by anyone in the water so they can swim and right their dinghy or self inflaters going off all the time, the mind boggles. Or bring back the old blow up jackets whichcould be partially inflated as required - I don't think so.
 
I admire your safety ethos, I really do.

But...
Expecting lifejackets to be worn dinghy sailing really does indicate that you haven't done much dinghy sailing. It's very impractical, and not really a problem that needs adressing. In fact the opposite.

If you're in the water in a lifejacket you are basically now incapable of helping yourself in a meaningful way, you are now awaiting rescue. Anyone who has done the RYA sea survival course will tell you how dificult it is to climb into a liferaft wearing one. For yacht sailors this is fine, we don't need to swim when we're in the water.

But for Dinghy sailors they need to be able to climb onto the centreboard of the upturned dinghy, and sometimes swim reasonable distances if the the dinghy doesn't turn over immediately when they fall out. This would be impossible in a lifejacket. Which is where the distinction comes in in all water sports.

If you are not expecting to go in the water - yacht sailing, mobo driving etc, then a lifejacket is the correct solution.
But where you expect to go in the water, and wear a wetsuit etc because of this, a buoyancy aid is the correct solution.
 
Try doing this in a lifejacket:-

RS600-01.jpg


The essence of sailing a high performance dinghy is agility and freedom of movement when:-
1. In the boat to keep the thing upright
and:-
2. In the water to right the thing and get back in again.
 
I would suggest, purely from my experience sailing Albacores, Enterprises, GP 14s, National 12s, Wayfarers, Snipes, Bosuns, Lasers, Toppers, Picos, Fireballs, 420s, 505s, Hoby Cats, Dart 18s, Tinker Travellers etc etc in waters from the Baltic to the tropics, that you are incorrect.

I wore a permanent buoyancy lifejacket (with manual inflation top up) sailing all of the above craft and the only time I had trouble getting back into the craft after a capsize was when I had become too fat! I still got back into it OK but just had to come in over the stern due to my fat gut!!!

I reckon it's not what's convenient - but what's safe that matters.
 
Many people actually wear their bouyancy under other clothing, my own one is worn under my dry suit so in a casual phoyto it would appear I was not wearing one. Wearing it under an over jacket of some kind is usually safer as it reduces the number of snag hazards
 
I did on a 505, 420, Hoby Cat and Dart 18. T'was no problem except not being able to see the hook on my harness 'cos it was below my stomach and lifejacket and I had to do it by feel with no visual check.

Surely you're not suggesting a young fit person such as you show on your photo would have a more difficult time than someone who is middle aged and obese like me?
 
To be pedantic technically they are all lifejackets now, but I agree that dinghy sailors wear what we used to call a bouyancy jac ket, which is what I said in my first post if you care to go back.

We wear bouyancy aids because in general we do not expect to be made unconcious before entering the war=ter, we also have safety boat cover and need something that does not restrict movement. Inflatable jackets wouls not be suitable as one can expect to get dunked more that once if the conditions are hard.
 
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I agree many people wear buoyancy aids under a top. But I would suggest it's somewhat a life shortening exercise to do the same with a CO2 cartridge inflating lifejacket.

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Yes.

Which is why nobody does that, dinghy sailors wear buoyancy aids.

I'm not realy sure where this conviction that buoyancy aids aren't good enough has come from.

There are god knows how many thousands of Dinghy sailors on the water every weekend. There was a thread about lifejackets recently (that I've just spectacularly failed to find, but I'm sure someone will supply) that detailed drownings in the UK. There were very, very few sailing related ones.

Add to which the Dinghy sailing fraternity is actually quite good at solving safety issues as they come to the fore - note the recent change in trapeese harneses, making them quick release to prevent trapped under accidents.

And I don't think there is a problem? Perhaps you know of evidence that face down unconcious drownings are a serious and frequent event in dinghy sailing?
 
To be really pedantic it ain't a lifejacket unless it turns you face up.

I realise that lots of people use BAs instead of lifejackets and that they may perceive that LJs are more restrictive to wear. But just because it gets a bit awkward is that a sufficient reason to compromise safety?

I had one of my crew simply step off a pontoon last year not wearing an LJ and he only just managed to hang onto the pontoon and stop being swept away by the current.
 
Most of the dinghy racing I've ever known about has had safety boats.

How about golfers all wearing crash helmets ... archers wearing suits of armour ... table tennis players wearing goggles ... cross country runners wearing wellington boots ... those types that have to carry a bottle of water everywhere wearing dry suits? ... etc etc.

"Get real" I think is the modern expression ... I've been sailing for 45 years, as have, I've no doubt, a lot of other people on here - why aren't we all dead? ... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I've had personal friends who've died at sea ... don't preach to me pal!

The discussion was about dinghy sailing.

.... and I knew Rob James ... so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

...... and if you don't want to hear opinions other than your own ... or a bit of humour ... don't use forums!
 
The refernce to Rob James is in very poor taste and, according to Paul Gelder, inaccurate, to quote Paul:

"Salcombe’s lifeboat launched within 25 minutes of a VHF radio call. A rope was thrown to James, but he was never able to grasp it. Geoff Houlgrave, another experienced sailor aboard, tied two ropes together, making one end fast to his waist, and bravely dived overboard and swam to James. He had a full-time job holding onto his skipper 100ft away from the boat. James had been in the water for 30 minutes and no longer had the strength to help himself. A wave bigger than the rest broke their tenuous grip and James drifted away to his death. Houlgrave had to be stripped, dried and put in a sleeping bag to stop the advance of hypothermia."

No mention of lifejacket (a safety line is a different issue)

I repeat, your reference is in poor taste /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
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