Lifeboat speed in harbour...no respect to fellow mariners!

You seem to be losing the plot here....Mr Lilley said he never was spoken to by Poole. However he is the harbourmaster and Poole told me the harbour master said the lifeboat was only at half speed i.e. 12kts so there fore who did Poole speak to??? or indeed did they manufacture that information to cover up what actually took place!! Who knows, I guess we never will, as I said in my very first post, it was a case of Kangaroo court................I can only hope though through the good efforts of this forum the message will have been driven home and this bad practice will cease for the safety of us all. I guess with approaching 1500 views the subject has been well aired...lets all have some peace...

Fair winds to you all

Paul.
 
Paul,

So it is possible that Poole made the same mistake as I did in confusing the Port Manager with the Harbourmaster.

Where you say " as I said in my very first post, it was a case of Kangaroo court..............., do you not see that that is exactly what you have done in return to them. You have put your case forward here in emotive terms, where the Cox and RNLI have not been able to defend themselves.

I still won't hang a man in this way, and hope that you will let us know the outcome of the Troon harbour investigation which you should have started now. One man's complaint without substantiated evidence is not enough. The actions of the cox - as you describe them - are poor, however there is always another side to every story, and what you describe is almost beyond belief. So until the other side can put forward their case, I for one shall vote for a stay of execution.

Regards, David
 
[ QUOTE ]
But Cliff, was it unnecessary speed?

[/ QUOTE ]IMHO any speed in excess of 5 or 6 knts coming out of Troon Harbour is unnecessary and downright irresponsible. Any vessel approaching from the west is hidden from view by the west dolphin.
[ QUOTE ]
It has been said that the Cox knew that the lifeboat had been stood down before he left the berth, it has been said that the service was a false alarm, and it has been said that the RNLI investigation was a whitewash of closed ranks, and said that the Harbourmaster or RNLI HQ have lied. All pretty strong stuff. Not a lot of unverified proof.

[/ QUOTE ]Irrespective of whether or not the LB had been stood down I reiterate that any speed in excess of 5 or 6 knts coming out of Troon Harbour is unnecessary and downright irresponsible.Further more no one said the investigation was a whitewash but merely that It would be expected of such organisations to close ranks, a situation I have experienced myself from both sides (having had the ranks closed on me and having closed ranks on others - usually the latter) As for who is telling lies - well it is evident someone is either through not knowing the full story or having been fed misinformation or deliberately is no matter the scenario does not add up. "pretty strong stuff"? well why beat about the bush - someone is not giving the true story.
[ QUOTE ]
I find the concept of a coxswain crashing out of a harbour knowing he had already been stood down a little strange.

[/ QUOTE ]Perhaps it is not the concept that is a little strange rather the gung-ho behavior that is strange and needs addressing. It has been said that a crew member agreed that the LB did depart on full throttle. If that is the case then the coxswain needs taken to task on that before he is responsible for an accident at the harbour mouth. I can understand why the LB would be taken out even if stood down - I was always under the impression it was not a good idea to start an engine and shut it down before it reached full operating temperature - something to do with thermal stresses and condensation within the engine - so I could understand the LB being taken out for a run round the bay to warm the engines up properly.
[ QUOTE ]
A flase alarm is a genuine incident until proven to be false.

[/ QUOTE ]Was the LB not stood down before it left its berth?
[ QUOTE ]
The RNLI investigation can be taken further, to the local MCA marine office for example, but not as a whinge on a public forum surely.

[/ QUOTE ]Perhaps that is what is needed - to take the matter further that is. "whinge" who is whinging? I for one would not class the initial post as a "whinge" Something like this should be a matter of concern to all boaty folk be they canoeists or raggies or MoBos or dinghy sailors.
[ QUOTE ]
The harbourmaster is on leave, so it must have been someone else that spoke to Starboard on his behalf who perhaps did not have the full story, hence the conflicting story between the RNLI and the harbourmaster.

[/ QUOTE ]Is he? then how come he spoke to Starboard?. How do you know he is on leave?. "so it must have been" Why? that is purely a supposition on your part. Sorry but there are too many loose ends and conflicting stories going around - I personally "smell a rat" but that is just my personal opinion
[ QUOTE ]
No I'm sorry, but there will have to be a little stronger evidence before I can be persuaded. It surely is time for someone to ask the Cox what happened?

[/ QUOTE ]I fully agree and it should be an independent body or impartial investigator.
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hammer.thumb.gif
“Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity”
Skype id:cliffillupo
 
I wondered if it came about because cats are known to do a little light gardening (and some mousekeeping too) /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

John
 
Most users of Hydroponics are using it to grow illegal substances in their loft
No wacky baccy smoking going on this forum I hope? .... or if there is, where?
 
Re: It may be uncomfortable .... it may be suspect ...

i know we could follow the rest of the uk industry in covering our backsides and ask for a risk assessment to be carried out prior to departure, a meeting with at least 10 people (obviously a working lunch would be the order of the day) involving all senior managers form all parties concerned (don't ask those doing the job though as they might ask something tricky). Follow this up by the appropriate method statement and all sign on to a work permit so everyone knows what is going on. Oh dear a few people seem to have drowned in the meantime but the working lunch was good!! NOT
I once heard a visiting boat complaining about the speed the Lifeboat left Holyhead a few years ago because the wash had caused his bottle of red wine to fall on the floor! Oh dear never mind.
Yes the wash can sometimes be a bit more than usual but if I'd call on their services I'd want then there ASAP.
(As for the comment about the police driving fast well err not really relavent, I though the Lifeboats were there to save lives not persecute boaters. )
 
Re: It may be uncomfortable .... it may be suspect ...

There is a big difference between a little wash that knocks a bottle of plonk over on its side and a wash that knocks the whole boat over on its side.

By all means have th eLB to your rescue ASAP but not blasting out og a confined harbour at high speed. The time saving is only a few seconds and IF a few seconds matter don't you think you should have called for help earlier? Do you really believe 20 seconds matter on a call out - the LB can make or loose that on any call out or is this another one of these backslapping exercises we hear so much off these days - "look how good we are (pat, pat, slap, slap) and just in the nick of time we are real heroes" - Give me a break please. Once the LB is past the harbour limits then the Coxswain (he or she) can satisfy his (or her) ego and go for the adrenaline rush.

You are correct though about the police driving fast on the roads - they do not throw up a wash to the potential serious damage to parked cars!
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hammer.thumb.gif
“Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity”
Skype id:cliffillupo
 
The only time I've ever seen a lifeboat produce wake of that height is when launched from a high slip (eg St Davids). Even with amplification by shallow waters nearby, a 12' wake would be exceptional! I doubt it was anything of the sort.
 
I'm also surprised he managed to get up to 25knts in the harbour (25knts is the top speed of the Trent) I would have thought harbour wasn't long enough
 
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