Lifeboat for tangled yachts?

[Bru]

I'm simply relaying what I heard (without specifics, obvs), and that was CG telling RNLI to STFU and stand down while others dealt with the Mayday. They launched anyway and continued overspeaking people on 16. The CG continued to tell them politely to keep quiet. RNLI then bypassed them by directly asking for a position. Whether it's procedure or not, it certainly happened.

I don't doubt that is your impression of what happened from what you overheard on Ch.16. However, I do seriously doubt if it actually went down the way you think it did. Who paged the crew? Who authorised the launch? Do you know for certain that the lifeboat helm actually received the message to "STFU" or stand down? Is it perhaps possible the lifeboat helm thought they were being tasked to a different incident? Perhaps they actually were being tasked to a different incident and somebody at Fareham got their knickers in a twist (not unlikely I'm afraid). Or selected the wrong aerial(s) (which they've been in the habit of doing)

Whatever the real story, confusion is bound to arise on occasions. Sounds like this was one of those occasions

Was this the paddleboard incident in the Solent a copiuple of weeks ago? If so, I think I know what you are talking about. Calshot were launched first and then Cowes. I do think you might be just over-egging the overtalking a bit though.

Perhaps somebody could enlighten us to what actually happened without trying to make a point, negative or otherwise

 

[Bru]

I don't know what the right answer is for the RNLI and I sympathise with them rescuing refugees from vessels in distress. I don't support what they are doing when collecting refugees from boats and transferring them to shore. In my view, for as long as the situation is happening, the UK needs to respond with Border Force boats to rescue vessels in distress with refugees and collect refugees from overloaded boats. Refugees don't head to sea in wild weather, hence any vessel in distress carrying refugees should easily be rescued by dedicated Border Force vessels manned by professional sailors.

So what if the Border Force doesn't have enough vessels available to respond?

Are people, including women and children, to be left floating around in inflatable boats in the middle of one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world until one of the handful of Border Force boats is available?

They've got half a dozen coastal patrol vessels and five cutters (one of which is apparently in dock and another on deployment to the Med). Not exactly a vast fleet and cross channel migrants isn't their only tasking

It follows that on a busy day with inflatables in the channel, the Border Force will rapidly be overwhelmed and the next available resource is the UK maritime rescue organisation aka the RNLI

It's a totally unsatisfactory situation but there's sod all the RNLI can do about it other than do what they do best when tasked by the Coastguard. Anything beyond that is a political issue and beyond their remit

Mind you, if I was RNLI crew I'd be deeply unhappy about being put in the invidious position they're in but again, what else can they do?

 

[awol]

........... dedicated Border Force vessels manned by professional sailors.

??? Well, they are paid so does that make them professional? From the little I've seen of them around the Clyde I would term them entitled yahoos - certainly not considerate of other boats.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

... So what if the Border Force doesn't have enough vessels available to respond? ...

Its a political problem that needs money and more boats to deal with it while politicians sort it out. Leave the rescue services to rescue others not be victims of failed politics. To be quite frank, the French and Brits are happy to kill thousands in the origin country at great financial cost but are incapable of funding a refugee service and border controls where the incidents happen, instead relying on a charity. Its a pathetic response by both governments. This is what the border force are for, controlling our borders, its about time the politicians paid for more boats and stop relying on a charity for their political problems.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

??? Well, they are paid so does that make them professional? From the little I've seen of them around the Clyde I would term them entitled yahoos - certainly not considerate of other boats.

Yes they are professionals and likely quite skilled at what they do.

 

[Bru]

Its a political problem that needs money and more boats to deal with it while politicians sort it out. Leave the rescue services to rescue others not be victims of failed politics. To be quite frank, the French and Brits are happy to kill thousands in the origin country at great financial cost but are incapable of funding a refugee service and border controls where the incidents happen, instead relying on a charity. Its a pathetic response by both governments. This is what the border force are for, controlling our borders, its about time the politicians paid for more boats and stop relying on a charity for their political problems.

All of which is not without merit, indeed I am disinclined to argue with it. But what exactly do you suggest the RNLI does about it?

And beware of opening a can of worms ... the UK has long relied on a charity and volunteers to meet, and indeed exceed, our obligations to provide maritime rescue services. If we start down the slippery slope of saying that service shouldn't respond to anybody and everybody in need, regardless of their status etc., where might it end up?

Because essentially the same argument can be made, and often is made, that the RNLI should not respond to breakdowns, vessels that have run out of fuel, etc.

Anyway, all of your points are political. And for certain the RNLI will be doing everything possible to avoid getting dragged into the politics any further than it is already through no fault of its own

 

[Deleted member 36384]

All of which is not without merit, indeed I am disinclined to argue with it. But what exactly do you suggest the RNLI does about it?

And beware of opening a can of worms ... the UK has long relied on a charity and volunteers to meet, and indeed exceed, our obligations to provide maritime rescue services. If we start down the slippery slope of saying that service shouldn't respond to anybody and everybody in need, regardless of their status etc., where might it end up?

Because essentially the same argument can be made, and often is made, that the RNLI should not respond to breakdowns, vessels that have run out of fuel, etc.

Anyway, all of your points are political. And for certain the RNLI will be doing everything possible to avoid getting dragged into the politics any further than it is already through no fault of its own

UK Govermebt and French Governments hire vessels and crews to manage refugees at sea. For example ex North Sea rig standby vessels with the crews trained in rescue activities and the boats fitted to deal with large numbers; they currently exist and there is an excess, just hire them. The RNLI then stand down. Both governments work to stop the people trafficking that is fuelling the refugee crisis.

The RNLI get on with their core job, free from the political crisis that they are caught up in.

 

[Bru]

UK Govermebt and French Governments hire vessels and crews to manage refugees at sea. For example ex North Sea rig standby vessels with the crews trained in rescue activities and the boats fitted to deal with large numbers; they currently exist and there is an excess, just hire them. The RNLI then stand down. Both governments work to stop the people trafficking that is fuelling the refugee crisis.

The RNLI get on with their core job, free from the political crisis that they are caught up in.

Wouldn't it be nice

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Wouldn't it be nice

Of course its not nice, refugees, people trafficking, displacement, hopelessness, fear, desperation. There is nothing nice about it, but there are better ways of managing the issue that the country currently faces, especially the maritime aspect of it. I simply believe that defaulting to the RNLI, as a charity, to support refugees in trouble, is a lazy approach to a special problem,

 

[Bru]

Of course its not nice, refugees, people trafficking, displacement, hopelessness, fear, desperation. There is nothing nice about it, but there are better ways of managing the issue that the country currently faces, especially the maritime aspect of it. I simply believe that defaulting to the RNLI, as a charity, to support refugees in trouble, is a lazy approach to a special problem,

And as I say, I don't disagree with you but there's nothing the RNLI can do about it (at least operationally and publicly, I bet there's some full and frank discussions going on behind closed doors)

 

[NormanS]

What exactly are these potential illegal immigrants fleeing from? Is France really so awful?

 

[dom]

And it's now causing problems for some of my colleagues, merely by virtue of them being lifeboat crew.

A friend of mine, who is crew at a station many miles from the nearest migrant, lost his job on a building site this week, after the rest of the workforce refused to work with a "people trafficker".

I've been called a "traitor to this country", by someone presumably with a fairly poor grasp of geography, as I'm never likely to rescue a migrant either, unless they're spectacularly off course.

Still, I suppose I shouldn't complain. Some crews nearer the centre of the action have had rocks and bottles thrown at them, and been threatened with physical violence.

Juan, what you describe is not just wrong, it's a disgrace, on many levels, simple as.

Especially when it's directed against people putting their lives at risk to save the lives of others, and who are making none of the political music here.

It's a matter the police and relevant authorities should investigate ASAP.

 

[penfold]

Years ago we'd just left Yarmouth IOW to cross the bay to Poole, when the Coastgaurd put out a call on CH16 for craft in Christchurch Bay to keep a lookout for a small powerboat with 4 people on board that had engine failure.

We did spot them, and diverted towards them whilst giving the CG an update and posistion. CG operator informed us that the ILB was on it's way from Lymington, and sure enough within 10 minutes or so we could see it coming from close to North Head bouy. The weather was calm and sunny, so it wasn't long before the were alonside.

The powerboat was from Poole also, so we offered to tow them back there... it might have been slow, but easily do-able as there was little or no wind. The ILB crew were having none of it, and insisted on towing them back to Lymington.

That kind of thing does get my goat; the assumption of authority that they do not have, the "Warden Hodges" tendency. They didn't have any more power to tell that power boat owner what to do than you did; you were perfectly right to offer a tow and the owner would have been right to accept it, especially given the settled weather and the tow to Lymington wouldn't be much quicker, although more sheltered once inside Hurst Castle.

Once called out by the MCA the RNLI don't have any choice but to rescue people they find, SOLAS is quite clear on the subject; a rubber dinghy in the middle of the channel is not a safe place to be.

UK Govermebt and French Governments hire vessels and crews to manage refugees at sea. For example ex North Sea rig standby vessels with the crews trained in rescue activities and the boats fitted to deal with large numbers; they currently exist and there is an excess, just hire them. The RNLI then stand down. Both governments work to stop the people trafficking that is fuelling the refugee crisis.

The RNLI get on with their core job, free from the political crisis that they are caught up in.

There bloody aren't spare crews; the remaining companies in the business(some have gone to the wall or been bought out recently, others are teetering on the brink) are fighting each other for crew who know what they're doing, the ones on the dole are the diddies no-one wants, still more are swallowing the anchor or finding work in other sectors. My employer is offering a bounty if we bring in recruits, a frankly stupid idea and I will have nothing to do with it, but there you go.

 

[Juan Twothree]

I bet there's some full and frank discussions going on behind closed doors)

There are.
More or less daily, from what I've heard.

 

[Mister E]

What exactly are these potential illegal immigrants fleeing from? Is France really so awful?

They are coming here specifically to give you a hug and to teach you compassion.

 

[Hermit]

Perhaps somebody could enlighten us to what actually happened without trying to make a point, negative or otherwise

Mayday Saturday 28th

 

[Bru]

Mayday Saturday 28th

Is that the incident to which Lustyd refers?

If it is ...

Two lifeboats, the coastguard helicopter, a coastguard mobile unit and several passing vessels were involved in the rescue, all expertly coordinated by Solent Coastguard. What struck me was the calm and professional manner in which the whole proceedings were conducted in what was a complex and fast moving incident.

Gives a totally different impression of the sad proceedings

and

... I heard it all on the VHF. It was very confusing, because of the number of vessels involved, giving partial information and then not answering the coast guards follow up questions. It was at least 10 minutes before it became clear that there were multiple people in the water. Some were thankfully rescued by other vessels. But it was then hard to keep track of how many were involved overall, how many rescued and their condition and who remained in the water.

Suggests there was some degree of confusion on the VHF which could well account for difficulties in communication between the CG and the SAR assets