Life raft do you carry one

[MapisM]

??
I was talking about sat phones...

Doh, apologies, I came back at my desk after dinner, and made some confusion.
I obviously had epirbs in mind, in my post!

PS: hang on a minute, I just re-read your post #34 to which I replied.
It's not so difficult to see why I misunderstood your point, is it?

 

[Nigelpickin]

Doh, apologies, I came back at my desk after dinner, and made some confusion.
I obviously had epirbs in mind, in my post!

PS: hang on a minute, I just re-read your post #34 to which I replied.
It's not so difficult to see why I misunderstood your point, is it?

No!

Anyway back the it op - has anyone ever considered the importance of the hull shape of their life raft?

 

[ash2020]

The thing is - the liferaft came with the boat, I would not choose to buy one, but I just can't bring myself to take it to the dump.

What I will probably do is open it up and service it myself. (Haha, that'll bring a torrent of replies!) What could possibly go wrong?

I have always serviced and repaired my own car brakes. I design medical equipment which is currently being used on the International Space Station. I have previously made heated sensors which have been stuck onto babies. I have installed 440V 3 phase equipment, so I'm no stranger to risk assessments. The only thing that worries me is that I have no way of assessing the condition of the PVC apart from visually. Apart from that, I am totally confident about doing my own service. Weigh the gas canister, check the operating mechanism, check the welded joints, change the water, maybe change the painter. It'll also be such fun to try it out in the garden! Then I'll suck the air out and pack it neatly in its valise and sail away, confident in the knowledge that there's a 90% chance it'll work if I need it!

 

[ash2020]

No, actually, make that 98%. I'm that confident!

 

[Portofino]

Still wondering what exactly a sat phone brings to the party ?
You have Pan pan VHF ----DSC and other Nav aids .---eventually a mayday if you have time in a panic sinking scenario -to "call a friend " ?

Life raft
ERIPB
And a grab bag ---with what ever in .

It's presumably important the skipper and all crew stay focused and know the drill without any " I thought this n that ----etc
"

You could have the sat phone in the grab bag --- call home ave a chat waiting for the copter ,ck on the football results ,has the cat been fed etc .

but who would you ring on a sat phone in an emergency ,that makes VHF , liferaft ,ERIPB ---kinda redundant ?

 

[Nigelpickin]

Still wondering what exactly a sat phone brings to the party ?
You have Pan pan VHF ----DSC and other Nav aids .---eventually a mayday if you have time in a panic sinking scenario -to "call a friend " ?

Life raft
ERIPB
And a grab bag ---with what ever in .

It's presumably important the skipper and all crew stay focused and know the drill without any " I thought this n that ----etc
"

You could have the sat phone in the grab bag --- call home ave a chat waiting for the copter ,ck on the football results ,has the cat been fed etc .

but who would you ring on a sat phone in an emergency ,that makes VHF , liferaft ,ERIPB ---kinda redundant ?

No, you're right, I'm putting mine on eBay

 

[Portofino]

No!

Anyway back the it op - has anyone ever considered the importance of the hull shape of their life raft?

Very funny --yes stick duly received --and deserved on reflection --hand up to that one :encouragement:

Never seen one afloat in the sea or most importantly open blocked off in the yard .
So never thought about, tried to find comman denominators ,good or bad
Bit like an air bag in a car know its (them) are there ,but don,t ever really want one to go off .

 

[Nigelpickin]

Very funny --yes stick duly received --and deserved on reflection --hand up to that one :encouragement:

Never seen one afloat in the sea or most importantly open blocked off in the yard .
So never thought about, tried to find comman denominators ,good or bad
Bit like an air bag in a car know its (them) are there ,but don,t ever really want one to go off .

I had cause to use them, for exercise, for exercise, for exercise - in a previous life. Very tough work being first man in and the barley sugar is not much of an incentive.

 

[rgsmg53]

I am a cautious boater with huge respect for the sea and would not consider cruising without a liferaft for anything more than day-boat sailing. I sincerely hope I will never have to a liferaft in anger having inflated one and boarded it whilst wearing normal clothes in an indoor swimming pool which was difficult enough.

My latest boat's inventory when I purchased it included a 6-man liferaft so far out of date that it was not cost-effective to have it serviced.

Mostly it is just me and my wife on board with infrequent trips out with guests (including our precious grandchildren). We agonised over whether to replace the 6-man or 'downgrade' to a 4-man. We chose the 4-man route for a number of reasons
1. It is easier for one person to manhandle a 4-man over the side in an emergency - ours is on the fore deck
2. We carry a tender in davits so consider that having this in addition to a liferaft gives us adequate safety for trips not too far offshore with more than 4 aboard
3. We can always hire an additional 4-man for serious passage-making with a large crew
4. We were not happy with the stability of only 2 people using a 6-man liferaft in rough conditions

Incidentally, our local lifeboat coxwain's personal opinion was that we had made a sensible decision. He is also a leisure boater and RYA instructor and firmly of the view that no one gets into a liferaft unless it is a life or death decision.

 

[Tranona]

I don't have any statistics handy, but I would think that fire is a more likely occurrence than both structural failures and collisions, particularly in mobos.
And with fire, either you can effectively and immediately contain it, or you'd rather leave PDQ...

No. fire at sea is very rare. However fires on boats are common - particularly in the US. Most occur when the boat is moored up and the primary cause is gas - but even then this side of the atlantic rare.

Major issue in the US, and easily tracked because of mandatory reporting, but the major cause is petrol fires 0 refuelling, split hoses etc because of the tens of thousands of petrol engined sports boats. Still mostly on inland waters, very rare at sea.

 

[rubberduck]

Yep, 8 man self righter, off for a service at the moment, so ready to go with rest of boat in top condition if we do sell, although the stronger I feel the less inclined I become to dispose of her, even if it would be totally potty to keep her. Pretty sure I could manage a gentle potter up the thames, even if only to test the as yet untested lowering mast etc. I had custom made to get up past windsor.

 

[ctva]

The thing is - the liferaft came with the boat, I would not choose to buy one, but I just can't bring myself to take it to the dump.

What I will probably do is open it up and service it myself. (Haha, that'll bring a torrent of replies!) What could possibly go wrong?

I have always serviced and repaired my own car brakes. I design medical equipment which is currently being used on the International Space Station. I have previously made heated sensors which have been stuck onto babies. I have installed 440V 3 phase equipment, so I'm no stranger to risk assessments. The only thing that worries me is that I have no way of assessing the condition of the PVC apart from visually. Apart from that, I am totally confident about doing my own service. Weigh the gas canister, check the operating mechanism, check the welded joints, change the water, maybe change the painter. It'll also be such fun to try it out in the garden! Then I'll suck the air out and pack it neatly in its valise and sail away, confident in the knowledge that there's a 90% chance it'll work if I need it!

I self serviced mine a couple of years ago at 10 years old (raft, not me). Best thing I did as it was simple and gave reassurance of its design, use and where all the bits go and work. I removed the consumables of the flares and pills etc as I carry them in a grab bag. The main thing to do is to video and photograph every step of the way as you unpack it. Getting it back in relies on this as every fold and touch needs to be the same. To finish I used ratchet straps to compress it into the container. I will replace it in a year or so and at that point, I will fire off this one and see if it works, that will be the final test.

As to the suggestion that a sat phone or any other gizmo is a substitute for a life raft in the list of item to buy for the boat, I would ask, once the call is made and your location given, what will you use when the boat sinks?

As to the OP, yes, and always on the deck of the boat.

 

[Tranona]

I don't think anyone ever bothered to make a statistic on a scenario which is supposed to never happen (if you want or must keep a liferaft, there's not much point in not having it serviced).
That said, I once spoke with an engineer of a liferaft producer, and he explained me that the #1 reason behind the prescribed service intervals is that the water rations inside have a relatively short shelf life.
There are of course other things that get checked or replaced as necessary, but I'm saying this because in your boots I'd rather keep a non-serviced liferaft onboard than in the shed.
After all, before dying of thirst, you still have a chance of getting some rain...

however if you read the MAIB reports over the last 15 years or so which investigate most serious incidents that involve deployment of rafts you will find a worrying number of failures to deploy. However the overall numbers are tiny so you can only really draw anything from individual cases rather than claim any statistical significance.

More data available for fishing boats where not only are there many more deployments, but also more failures, not necessarily because the raft did not fire, but the crew were not saved. Fishing boat founderings though are distinctly different in nature from leisure craft and not a lot of learning can be carried over.

Not all negative because there have been significant developments based on experience, particularly in stability of rafts, launching the right way up, boarding and general methods of construction. So today'rafts , even the cheap ones are very much better than in the past, and generally there has been a fall in real price of anywhere between 40-70% in real terms over the last 30 years.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

I self serviced mine a couple of years ago at 10 years old (raft, not me). Best thing I did as it was simple and gave reassurance of its design, use and where all the bits go and work. I removed the consumables of the flares and pills etc as I carry them in a grab bag. The main thing to do is to video and photograph every step of the way as you unpack it. Getting it back in relies on this as every fold and touch needs to be the same. To finish I used ratchet straps to compress it into the container. I will replace it in a year or so and at that point, I will fire off this one and see if it works, that will be the final test.

As to the suggestion that a sat phone or any other gizmo is a substitute for a life raft in the list of item to buy for the boat, I would ask, once the call is made and your location given, what will you use when the boat sinks?

As to the OP, yes, and always on the deck of the boat.

I don't think anyone's suggested that a sat phone is a substitute for a liferaft...

 

[Nigelpickin]

I don't think anyone's suggested that a sat phone is a substitute for a liferaft...

Its late jimmy, I don't think people are reading the posts properly!

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Its late jimmy, I don't think people are reading the posts properly!

Indeed, and on that timely note... goodnight!

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Doesn't VHF only reach about 24 miles, or am I mistaken?

More or less - it's safest to treat as line of sight (between the aerials). It can be much further but that's generally due to fairly unusual atmospheric conditions. UHF SSB has a much longer range but is more expensive and complex to install and needs a little more understanding to operate. There's also no guarantee of who you'll get on the other end. An EPIRB has a better coverage than a sat-phone for the most part though obviously you don't get to talk to anyone. Having worked with the SAR crews at Lossiemouth I can say that the psychological boost from actually talking to someone and hearing them tell you that rescue is on the way is absolutely immense if you're stuck in a cold sea.

As for liferafts, having been dumped in the North Sea both with and without a liferaft I can say I'd go for the liferaft every time and that's whilst knowing that rescue is just a short while away. Throw in the chance of fire on top of sinking and I can't understand why a £50,000 boat doesn't have a £500 liferaft. One last thought is that a liferaft can sometimes be the only way to get an MOB back onboard when there's a heavy swell throwing the boat around.

 

[Bandit]

I have a life raft as well as a grab bag and an Epirb.

My Epirb was no longer supported so I bought a new one which has a GPS receiver and also transmits position, so pleased about that.

Liferaft 12 years old so going from 3 yearly service to annual so not cost effective so I have replaced it with a new one and back to 3 yearly service.

In France life rafts are condemned after 12 years old.

In busy waters with lots of traffic and close to coastguard and a harbour I possibly would not have a liferaft but for an area which is quiet from a boat point of view and over an hour by life boat , I want a liferaft.

If you go to France they have the right to fine you and in extreme cases to detain you for out of date, flares, lifejackets and liferafts.

 

[oceanfroggie]

Yes. Serviced last year.

In grab bag: PLB, HH VHF (dry cell spares), HH GPS (dry cell spares), car keys, credit cards, spare phone. Cruising in low traffic waters well off the Atlantic west coast of Ireland a raft buys us time, especially if fire, or structural failure due striking an unforeseen hazard such as a semi-submerged container. On longer passages we are often 15-30 miles offshore. Our tender cannot be deployed in under 10 seconds. Unlikely our life raft will ever be needed, but if only once in our entire boating career that's enough.

 

[Momac]

If you go to France they have the right to fine you and in extreme cases to detain you for out of date, flares, lifejackets and liferafts.

Do the French have a right to fine you for having no life raft or flares ?