LIBS e-borders update no. 965 "How can it be voluntary"

[MoodySabre]

That was todays quote from a man in uniform. "We don't make policy, we are on the boats. We understand that plans change because we are seamen"

Oh and - "The men in suits will here tomorrow"

Go get 'em boys

 

[Searush]

That was todays quote from a man in uniform. "We don't make policy, we are on the boats. We understand that plans change because we are seamen"

Oh and - "The men in suits will here tomorrow"

Go get 'em boys

Do I detect a tiny sliver of cynicism creeping in now? What a marketing disaster. I wish I could believe that any law would be applied more consistently & realistically than the LIBS "party line" on e-borders.

 

[Gludy]

"We don't make policy, we are on the boats. We understand that plans change because we are seamen"
Actually we are asking you to explain policy - otherwise why are you on the stand which is not a boat by the way?

 

[Bosun Higgs]

otherwise why are you on the stand which is not a boat by the way?

Its a jolly! And probably one on overtime too! Thats why they are there.

As for the stand, its an idea that someone can easily sell to the powers that be, and it raises the profile of the borders agency. More profile, more staff, bigger empire, more pay.

The one thing the stand isnt there for is to make policy on implementation of the rules.

 

[Boat44]

"Did you Mr E borders man consult the public?"

"Yes and we had a stand at the London Boat Show!!"

Do they have feedback forms that we can complete? Do they have, advertised, means by which we the public, the people eborders represent and are paid by, can raise our concerns and issues formally to them?

If the answer is Yes to the above, fair enough. If it is No, then it is just a PR/Spin stunt.

If it is Yes, can a nice person post details on this forum please? (Other than write to ones MP and RYA etc.)

 

[MoodySabre]

Do I detect a tiny sliver of cynicism creeping in now?

More than a sliver.

They did have a display of fake Rolex's banned animal items and other stuff which they had presumably "recovered". Next year they will have an errant sailor in the stocks for us all to pelt with tomatoes and rotten eggs

 

[rallyveteran]

Do they have feedback forms that we can complete? Do they have, advertised, means by which we the public, the people eborders represent and are paid by, can raise our concerns and issues formally to them?

If the answer is Yes to the above, fair enough. If it is No, then it is just a PR/Spin stunt.

If it is Yes, can a nice person post details on this forum please? (Other than write to ones MP and RYA etc.)

The people of the UKBA stand were dishing out cards for feedback, but invited further comment by email to ebct@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk.

However I don't think that inviting feedback is enough. A truly transparent consultation process would publish a summary of the feedback including any reports made by the staff manning the stand to their superiors. I have included this comment in my feedback.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

The people of the UKBA stand were dishing out cards for feedback, but invited further comment by email to ebct@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk.

However I don't think that inviting feedback is enough. A truly transparent consultation process would publish a summary of the feedback including any reports made by the staff manning the stand to their superiors. I have included this comment in my feedback.

You cant get representative feedback by this sort of disorganised approach. You need to properly sample, market research style. Otherwise all you get is comments from people with axes to grind.

 

[sarabande]

Once again (after the seahorse manure debate) we are missing an opportunity to have a collective voice in decisions which affect us as sailers and moboists and canoeists and skiers, etc.

The Forum has access to the largest and most articulate bunch of boating people in the UK. The RYA is now a commercial organisation more interested in generating revenue from ties and drinks coasters and certificates and Olympics sponsorship, and I rule them out of being able to represent the man on the Channel AWB.

I'd love to have an opportunity to debate with suits, provided I could be assured that they do not have a pre-determined outcome.

The time has come to block off the Solent , Felixstowe, Immingham, and Padstow, until our voice on this ill-conceived and badly implemented legislation has been lawfully heard, and a realistic and pragmatic policy and practice determined, to making our borders properly secure yet safeguarding our ancient rights of passage and free access to foreign waters.


dictated by Herbert Gusset, retired BofT Master Mariner, and holder of the Blue Riband for (almost) Tongue in Cheek statements. Seriously.

 

[Koeketiene]

Go get 'em boys

Weren't you advocating the 'roll over and accept the inevitable' approach only a week ago?

 

[Searush]

Weren't you advocating the 'roll over and accept the inevitable' approach only a week ago?

Don't rub it in, he was only advocating a reasonable approach, but has now seen the unreliability of officialdom demonstrated - including the UKBA.

I welcome the convert with open arms.

 

[MoodySabre]

Weren't you advocating the 'roll over and accept the inevitable' approach only a week ago?

Last week I reported a conversation with a man in a suit who seemed to say that they wanted it to be easy for us. On the basis of what he said the scheme seemed not too inocuous or restrictive.

The "Go get 'em" comment was aimed at those who didn't believe what I reported and will have an opportunity to ask their own questions and form their own opinion (one's own opinion always being better and more informed than anyone elses)

The cynic inside tells me that whatever we say or do will not make the slightest difference. If we are left with a choice of accepting the inevitable or deliberately breaking the law to make a point then everybody should play that as they think appropriate. I'm not a martyr or trailblazer by nature.

 

[Robin]

Hell be selling the Moody to get a Bav next, mark my words!

 

[MoodySabre]

Hell be selling the Moody to get a Bav next, mark my words!

N B L

 

[glashen]

It could all be OK in the end!

Consider this scenario:

• Most of us register our "foreign" trips through the internet.
• The system works.
• The UKBA are understanding when we have to change our plans, if we have only EU citizens on board they pretty much ignore us with the occasional courteous check to ensure we're not part of an illegal immigrant/drug smuggling ring.
• Those who don't register get challenged more often but are still Ok as long as they're not drug / people smuggling.
• They actually catch more miscreants

I know I'm probably living in Cloud Cuckoo Land but you never know.

Of course it would be a lot easier to believe in this if we were hearing a consistent message.

 

[Searush]

They actually catch more miscreants

ROFL. How does that happen then? You just made it up to justify the rest of the silly assumptions didn't you?

There are sensible officials & police that give effective friendly warnings, parking wardens that don't issue silly tickets & polite UKBA jet ribbers. But the nature of the jobs are confrontational, adrenaline is often to the fore so there are bound to be bad decisions. Unfortunately, there are no legal defences against them. One is simply adjudged guilty & spends your 12 months in prison. Lose your job, house & probably family & boat too if not paid for. Great innit?

It don't affect me much, I seldom go foreign - altho I plan a trip to Ireland every year, I have only done it once so far. But those of you on the S coast are about to have your major cruising areas severely curtailed.

 

[glashen]

"They actually catch more miscreants"

ROFL. How does that happen then? You just made it up to justify the rest of the silly assumptions didn't you?

Well I sort of assumed that was the whole point!

Actually registration of those crossing the channel regularly might help the UKBA identify the criminals.

The other wild assumption was that the system might actually work! apart from those the other "silly assumptions" were based on reported statements from UKBA officials.

I did say I was probably living in Cloud Cuckoo Land.

 

[rallyveteran]

Actually registration of those crossing the channel regularly might help the UKBA identify the criminals.

...if there are any.

 

[johnabbott893]

"They actually catch more miscreants"

Well I sort of assumed that was the whole point!

Actually registration of those crossing the channel regularly might help the UKBA identify the criminals.

If you are on a watch list or have a warrant out for your arrest AND are travelling on your own passport then eBorders will catch you before you leave or as you arrive. Brilliant.

If you decide to use a false identity, a wise move if you intend to blow up the Houses of Parliment, you are free to come and go as you please with eBorders. IIRC the UK does not even check passports against the EU database of stolen passports - we don't subscribe.

So remember, when you register with eBorders for your weekend in France and the UKBA stops you because have already left last week, it is because some criminal has nicked your identity to log out of dear old Blighty for a trip to Pakistan.

 

[timbartlett]

So remember, when you register with eBorders for your weekend in France and the UKBA stops you because have already left last week, it is because some criminal has nicked your identity to log out of dear old Blighty for a trip to Pakistan.

Or because someone at the UKBA HQ (strategically located in Britain's biggest council estate, and about as far from any European coastline as it is possible to get) has fecked up the database. But whatever the reason, it will be deemed to be your fault, and you will be expected to pay the penalty.