Length of string question - annual running costs

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scruff

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During the summer I was close to buying a westerly Conway. Due to uncertainty in Brexit thus employment decided to hold off for a year or two before I buy 'till things quieten down.

The money I would be spending on running the boat, I've been putting into a savings account since. For a 34' boat, excluding berthing costs I've been accounting for a £1k pa maintenance spend. Does this seem reasonable or too low?

I appreciate this is a length of string question, but thinking about an average spend over a 10-15 year ownership
 
If you're talking about a 40-year old boat like a Conway, I think you'd need to allow much more as an average over 10-15 years. Within that period, you might need to put a new engine in an old boat, certainly put new rigging on it, probably new sails, maybe a sprayhood, plus the many odds and ends which will just wear out or break.
 
Does the £1000 cover hauling out and relaunching, winter storage? Antifoul alone will cost about £150 per coat for top grade paint. If the keel has any rust, then you need some fertan rust converter and Primocon. Changing the engine oil and filters yourself. You will just about do that. Insurance will be about £250 extra. Mooring could range from a few hundred to thousands depending on where you are and whether a drying mooring or fully serviced marina.

If you need any other replacements or improvements, they will be extra. My Westerly Fulmar has cost £23,000 in replacements and improvements (no labour employed) and I still have a few thousand to go. I thought £12,000 was enough! OK I am trying to get it as close to new condition. Start thinking £3,000+ for a main and genoa, £1,000 for standing rigging, £700 for running rigging, etc, etc. Not forgetting bunk cushions, cooker, loo, head lining, sprayhood and mainsail cover, engine, deck fittings, and instruments. Once all the work is done my running costs will be minimal over the next 10 years of ownership.

The best advice you will get is buy the best example you can find to avoid early replacement costs, but realise keeping an old yacht in a good working condition will always cost a lot more than you expect.

If you are considering a Westerly, then join the Westerly Owners Association for £15.00 pa (even before buying). The saving on using their insurance policy is larger than the membership fee, plus there are other discounts from some suppliers. Also check out the information and boats for sale on their web site. https://westerly-owners.co.uk/
 
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Firstly, if you have been saving for years and have the funds, I would not "wait for things to quieten down" .. prices are lowest when the world is most nervous!

You need to define whether £1000 pa includes any "running costs" .. like berthing, haul out, insurance, plotter updates etc.

Then there is "consumables" .. your standing rigging is often limited to 15 years by the insurance, so put 1/15th of that to the budget

Your sails and running rigging wont last forever. Add some of that to that to the budget. Your batteries only have finite life too ...

Engine service, antifoul, paintwork are regular annual costs that can be quantified.

Then there is the unexpected broken winch, the dead autopilot, the bent rudder shaft ... all these can add up.

£1000 for regular, predictable maintenance sounds about right, but expect to spend at least £5k after you get her putting things right. Don't bother with a survey either, do it yourself.
 
scruff said:
During the summer I was close to buying a westerly Conway. Due to uncertainty in Brexit thus employment decided to hold off for a year or two before I buy 'till things quieten down.

The money I would be spending on running the boat, I've been putting into a savings account since. For a 34' boat, excluding berthing costs I've been accounting for a £1k pa maintenance spend. Does this seem reasonable or too low?

I appreciate this is a length of string question, but thinking about an average spend over a 10-15 year ownership
Click to expand...

Don't know and don't want to know -- it costs what it costs
 
And this is how boats run down. Do you fix only what's broken, or do you keep her up?

Unless you refit when you buy her, or she is nearly new, probably twice that... if you do the work yourself. More if you sub it out.
 
Thanks all - the 1k pa is excluding mooring /winter ashore/ Cranage - that's easy to know the cost as it's published on the net. That's already accounted for.

I've the 10 years I'd expect to get new sails (~£3k) and a new sprayhood / sail cover and dodgers (~£2k) which left ~£5k for antifouling, anodes, filters etc. it was this cost I was trying to get a rough guage for. I'll admit I omited to think of new running & standing rigging...

I appreciate the comment of just go and buy now, and I could should I want to. However I cannot justify spending ~1 years safety net when there is the possibility my job could be affected by Brexit. Besides holding off for a year or two will result in either having enough to have a 6 month sabbatical to enjoy the boat...
 
Scruff

There is no complete answer as there are so many viariables. If you choose wisely, then many of the major replacements should have been done and you will avoid those costs.

Also remember you will need personal gear like waterproofs, life jackets, harnesses, shoes, boots, etc. Forgot in my earlier post that batteries need replacing every 5 to 7 years. A 105 amp battery is about £100, so a normal set up will cost you £300.

So take your time and buy wisely. Secondhand prices have never been lower. Many small yachts are almost worthless and are being given away rather than sold.
 
33 foot yacht in Spain DIY. lift out and antifoul £350, Annual service plus small parts through year £200. Contingency fund ( sails, line, engine ) in our case £1000 !! but we are a group so £1000 is no big deal and we have only used £500 a year.
Then of course insurance etc etc.
I think if you DIY you are not too far off the mark!
 
scruff said:
Thanks all - the 1k pa is excluding mooring /winter ashore/ Cranage - that's easy to know the cost as it's published on the net. That's already accounted for.

I've the 10 years I'd expect to get new sails (~£3k) and a new sprayhood / sail cover and dodgers (~£2k) which left ~£5k for antifouling, anodes, filters etc. it was this cost I was trying to get a rough guage for. I'll admit I omited to think of new running & standing rigging...

I appreciate the comment of just go and buy now, and I could should I want to. However I cannot justify spending ~1 years safety net when there is the possibility my job could be affected by Brexit. Besides holding off for a year or two will result in either having enough to have a 6 month sabbatical to enjoy the boat...
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You have not told us where you intend to keep the boat - and that can have a significant impact on running costs - not only mooring fees. The cost of labour is a lot higher round the popular south coast marinas and that impacts even if you intend to do most of the work yourself - you still need to get it lifted, blocked off ashore and relaunched.

Your £1k pa should cover lifting and relaunching plus the materials to do the regular annual maintenance of cleaning, antifouling, changing anodes and oil change but it will not leave much to cover the less frequent, but often expensive items like rigging, sails and engine maintenance.
 
Thank Concerto, I have all the wet weather gear, lift jackets etc handheld DSC radio etc - I sold my folkboat 18 months ago and kept the personal stuff.

As for some boats being worthless, the price my old boat went for still smarts! From that boat I learnt a great deal -stripping and refurb the engine and similarly the electrics. I both learned the skills on how to do them and more importantly find a boat where these have already been done well!

I'll start accounting for £1.5k pa I think...

Thanks all
 
Sandy said:
An interesting response. I am 100% certain my employers would fire me in about eight nanoseconds if I costed a job that way.
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But this isn't a job - I guess we've spent about 25k over the last 8 years but I'd hate to add it all up properly or I wouldn't have bought it.
 
maby said:
You have not told us where you intend to keep the boat - and that can have a significant impact on running costs - not only mooring fees. The cost of labour is a lot higher round the popular south coast marinas and that impacts even if you intend to do most of the work yourself - you still need to get it lifted, blocked off ashore and relaunched.

Your £1k pa should cover lifting and relaunching plus the materials to do the regular annual maintenance of cleaning, antifouling, changing anodes and oil change but it will not leave much to cover the less frequent, but often expensive items like rigging, sails and engine maintenance.
Click to expand...

Thanks Maby - boat will be kept on the west coast and I have been budgeting £2kpa for summer mooring & winter storage ashore. This has been accounted for separately as it's easy to know the costs / they are openly published online.
 
I'd budget for about twice or triple that, unless you want the boat to deteriorate over time. Plus mooring/storage costs of course. As others have said, buy one where the previous owners have taken the bigger hits, replacing engine, sails, rigging, upholstery. If you find one with all that recently done you just might scrape by for 5 to 10 years at £1,000 a year, doing most labour-intensive jobs yourself.
 
scruff said:
The money I would be spending on running the boat, I've been putting into a savings account since. For a 34' boat, excluding berthing costs I've been accounting for a £1k pa maintenance spend. Does this seem reasonable or too low?
Click to expand...

I have had my 52-year old boat for 21 years and I have certainly not needed to spend anywhere near £21,000 pounds maintaining her in good working order during that time. Apart from sailmaking, renewing standing rigging, repairing electronics, I do all the work myself.

So, yes you could probably do it for £1,000/annum, if you do most of the work yourself.
 
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