Leisure 22 v Nicholson 27 as a first boat

[Geo1000]

Good luck with the viewing.

Enjoy what you can afford, it's never long on here before some some joker says what you really need is a new, inordinately cumbersome, sailing caravan.

For an additional grand or so that replacement diesel engine is the clincher, it should give you reliability, power, good charging and help to sell the boat on when the time comes.

On a slightly downbeat note, some people will never really be comfortable with boats. The forum is littered with folk who have uprated their boat to bigger and bigger in the hope that a partner will take to it and it does not happen. Little steps.

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Thanks Doug, as I say, its a long game

 

[coveman]

Really make an effort to get your wife on board,there is no fun otherwise,try a course for women only in the sun,wrong time of the year unfortunatly ,but a boat with a less than happy crew is a pain

Very true - maybe a flotilla holiday in the warm Med would help win your wife over to the idea - great fun, no worries and a good way to learn the basics. Certainly helped me in the same situation!! Have to get rid of this damn virus first though.

 

[Geo1000]

Very true - maybe a flotilla holiday in the warm Med would help win your wife over to the idea - great fun, no worries and a good way to learn the basics. Certainly helped me in the same situation!! Have to get rid of this damn virus first though.

That's the problem coveman. Who knows when we'll be able to get abroad. Also, I've just turned 50 and I'd rather buy sooner rather than later....

 

[Wansworth]

The basic difference between men and women is men have a second childhood and want to do stuff they thing they missed out on in their youth whilst women seem to be home based,if your wife really is not interested but you are let her do whatever she does and you go boating,can lead to more interesting life new friends ,not all ways in each other pockets,depends on your nature ,my mother was happy to run a charity but my father was not happy on his own boating so he gave up,turned to fiddling in the garage with his Morris minor

 

[RJJ]

The aim being that in a couple of years, I then know if it's not for me, or i will trade up. I want a boat which will convince the wife it's possible to be comfortable in a boat, so I don't want a boat that will put her off. but rather persuade her of the benefits to trading up.

I think the "stepping stone" approach is flawed for the following reasons. Buying a boat you're already minded to trade-up is an expensive game...

Your wife is the massive variable here. (speaking as someone also with a less-experienced missus who is learning). She probably knows even less than you do, currently, about relative levels of comfort / discomfort aboard. If she's someone who likes camping, a long and blustery walk, swims in the sea, and tackles the garden landscaping with you whatever the weather - it's a good start. If she only likes shopping and cocktails, you have more of a challenge.

I would lean towards the "convincing" part earlier, in a more comfy boat. Think of it as "reconnaissance", upon which time is seldom wasted etc etc. A week or two chartered in Greece on a more modern 27-35 footer will take the pressure off you as an owner, give you better weather, and generally present sailing to you both in a better light. You'll need your DS, probably; then a flotilla gives you a chance to do charter "under supervision" and with company, if you prefer, vs bareboat where you go alone. Financially, set the cost of your DS course (maybe £1-1.2k for theory plus practical?) plus the holiday including flights (maybe, £3k for a fortnight outside school hols?) in context of a survey, purchase, year's mooring/insurance/servicing, a bunch of known and unknown repairs, and then another set of transaction costs if/when you trade up. I'm willing to bet it looks cheaper than trading "through" a boat over just a year or two of ownership.

Then you can make better joint decision about whether and how to proceed with your sailing. If you decide not to, then you've hopefully had some fun and aren't sitting on a tiresome hard-to-sell asset. If you decide to buy something, your other half will enter the joys of ownership with you and with a bit of experience. You'll both be better placed to evaluate whether 27 feet will meet your needs over a period of years, or whether you should take the step up right away.

On the flip side, I regret never taking making my missus for a weekend on a friend's Contessa. She talks about our 40 foot boat as "living on a confined space".... how little she knows.

 

[Topcat47]

I bought a Nic 26 as my first boat. Still sailing it. I appreciate it's liveability as well as its sailing performance. The best thing about it is I can still "single hand" her at my age, despite her problems manoeuvring astern. I too considered a smaller boat at first but ended up not being able to live with the cramped accommodation. I didn't need a shower on board, or central heating, but I would like a larger chart table and a new cooker. It's no Gin Palace but then neither is it a Marina Queen. I'd ago for the Nic if I were to do it again.

 

[Wansworth]

What I like about the nic 26 is the wc up the front out of the way

 

[Topcat47]

I suspect some of those who posted here are thinking of the Nic 27 as being a 26 which is a very traditional long-keeler. The Nic 27 is a Peter Milne design, 2 tons lighter yet much more spacious than the earlier Nic 26.

The 27 was built as an attempt by Camper & Nicholson to compete with the cheaper French imports that were getting popular. It's actually quite an attractive boat, and will certainly offer more space and accommodation than a Leisure 22, as well as being a fair bit faster. Original engines were usually only 7.5 hp, so a 20hp Beta is a big improvement, actually possibly a trace over-powered but no great issue.

I would not describe a Nic 27 as being a boat for "round the world", though if you are tough enough and reasonably lucky you can do that in anything. Look at Nicholson 27 archive details - Yachtsnet Ltd. online UK yacht brokers - yacht brokerage and boat sales for more information.

I'm NOT confusing the two and didn't think I would confuse anyone by mentioning my boat, but I'd chose the Nic any day over the other the Leisure 22 as it would be easier to live with and sail better. My point was, the Nic would be a keeper even if his partner decided it wasn't for her.

 

[FairweatherDave]

Your wife is the massive variable here. (speaking as someone also with a less-experienced missus who is learning). She probably knows even less than you do, currently, about relative levels of comfort / discomfort aboard. If she's someone who likes camping, a long and blustery walk, swims in the sea, and tackles the garden landscaping with you whatever the weather - it's a good start. If she only likes shopping and cocktails, you have more of a challenge.

Nicely put! Shared that with first mate. ?

 

[Wansworth]

There’s a classic cartoon cannot rember where but shows the wife totally overladenwith all the yachting paraphernalia whilst the husband with cap strides ahead empty handed?

 

[RJJ]

There’s a classic cartoon cannot rember where but shows the wife totally overladenwith all the yachting paraphernalia whilst the husband with cap strides ahead empty handed?

I remember a Peyton classic where she is strutting a tiny cocktail dress. Him "....and that cost more than a new spinnaker???!"

 

[pij27]

I think the major thing to consider and get right is whether the boat is for one or for both. From the discussions it is not clear if the partner is looking forward to sailing and being with you on it, or just going along as you are enthusiastic. Once this is decided then look at the two boats. If you are just looking for a boat for the odd day sail and maybe an overnight a couple of times a year, then the size doesn't really matter as it becomes a novelty. If she is fully onboard with the idea and wants to join in with all the sailing aspects then look at the two together and talk about what you want to do. Found a few friends who bought large yachts and then only sit on it at the marina and don't go out because the other half doesn't like it. May find that the smaller yacht can be more fun and used more.
There never is an ideal answer to the right size or layout, just what you are happy with.
Hope you come up with a good answer and don't end up regretting it