Legal Advice

[martinwoolwich]

Without going into any great detail at the moment, I may looking to find a solicitor with a good understanding of consumer law who also understands about boating.

I am about to have a fallout big time with a major manufacturer of marine equipment and am seriously considering taking legal action. I am certain I have compelling grounds, (so much so that the MD of the UK organisation has already agreed to a meeting with me on my boat).

If the meeting does not deliver the sort of response I expect, I will need some help to take them on and I think I may be disavantaged using my current firm who have no understanding or knowledge of boating. Also it's one of the unfortunate instances where the only people to sue are the suppliers who in turn will have to sue the manuafacturer.

The suppliers/installers are the good guys in all this and I would like to see how I can assist them too.

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[barryjl]

The lawyer who is often featured in MBM gave me some sound advice a year or so ago - he gave some free preliminary advice too when I emailed him with my initial request!

<hr width=100% size=1>There's no problems..just opportunities

 

[jfm]

Dunno anyone offhand, but I'd very much get a good rottweillery consumer law fighter lawyer first and a boat-knowledgeable lawyer second. And hence, I wouldn't go with the guy who writes in MBY etc, he is only slightly famous for boating law and not at all famous for consumer law

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[Joe_Cole]

I hate to say it but, without knowing the details, are you sure that the suppliers/installers really are the good guys in this? It's their job to ensure that what you have is "fit for purpose" and it is they who should be sorting it out for you. It's not unknown for suppliers to happily blame the manufacturer and stand back.

Joe

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[martinwoolwich]

No, I'm sure. The installers have done loads of other stuff for me and their service and response has been excellent. I've been copied in on all the communications - both ways - and now we both agree that they're just not being taken seriously. That's why I now feel I have also to get involved

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[Observer]

Martin,

Number 1 point to get clear is you have no legal recourse against the manufacturer if you purchased from a dealer. You HAVE to take action against the person with whom you made the contract. There's no ifs or buts about that. It's the only way (at least on a Sale of Goods Act issue).



<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://aflcharters.co.uk>Dream Dancer</A>

 

[jfm]

Martin:
Observer is right though I can see you already understand that point. But I think you're being too nice to the dealer. You paid a price for some gear that was set by the market; that price includes a dealer margin which includes the cost + risk for the dealer in honouring obligations to the customer, even in cases where the manufacturer is not nice to the dealer. The dealer has taken his margin and he has to take what comes with the territory and refund a customer for duff goods, even if the manuafacturer is being difficult. That's part of the reason dealers earn their crust.

So your dealer might be seem nice, but is he, really? Frankly I think the honest and decent thing for him to do is refund your money or replace the gear (or whatever) and then quietly sort out the manufacturer behind the scenes, not involving you. This is the civilised UK and that's business and it's how decent people should behave in business. So (without knowing all the facts) I think you are being too nice and should just insist the dealer plays by the rules

BTW, not lecturing you, I'm sure you will do the right thing, just saying it how I see it Good luck

PS all this makes me happy we kept a price retention on our new boat 3 months ago. Not everything is fully de-snagged yet but at least we have the satisfaction of owning/using the boat without having paid the last price installment. The dealer is naturally less happy about this.......

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[ainley]

try Trading Standards first, they might take it on ?



regards Alan

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[steverow]

Martin,

If this is marine electronics or engineering equipment, get yourself a really good qualified engineer on side who can look at the situation and advise you accordingly.
It is probably unlikely that you will find a technically qualified or knowledgable lawyer to assist. There are specialist marine lawyers about, but these usually work only in the area of commercial shipping and will most certainly cost a lot more than the deal is worth.

Regrettably, as others have said, under the sale of goods act, it is the supplier to whom your only recourse lies.
He in turn will have to seek recourse from the manufacture and this rarely happens for a variety of reasons, not least that the dealer will probably want to retain his trading relationship with the manufacturer.
You seem to have already weakened your position by a conciliatory attitude toward your supplier/installer.
Your contract in law is with your supplier, and it is their responsibilty to carry out the job to a reasonable standard.
Any goods that they supply must be free of any defect and be "fit for the purpose" for which they were supplied.
If for instance that particular manufacturers equipment is not up to standard, you would be within your rights to ask your supplier to supply a different make, or give you a full refund, although things can get more complicated when there are installations involved with regard to travelling time, labour costs etc.

Obviously your meeting with the manufacturers MD shows that you now have made sufficient noise for them to get concerned, and is a step in the right direction,
but remember he is working for your supplier.
At the meeting get a senior representative of the supplier to attend, and get an independent witness (unrelated to you) to fulfil the role of arbitrator.
Make a written record of the meeting, and most certainly try and agree a strategy
on the way forward to get out of the mess. If possible try and get your supplier to sign something to that effect.

Make it clear to all parties that your next step will be to refer the matter to trading standards if no satisfactory way forward can be found.
Keep the meeting amicable, straightforward and concentrate only on the facts without rancour.
At all costs try and keep it out of court because it will probably end up costing both you and the supplier dear. The maker will probably get away with it.

I know because as a former supplier of radio gear (during the eighties) I have been in this situation as a dealer more than once.

Best of Luck
Let me know how you get on.

Steve.





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[itsonlymoney]

I totally agree with jfm on this. It matters not how nice the dealer is, the contract for whatever goods or services were talking about are with the company you paid the money to. Its there problem to seek recompence for there loss if any, once they have satisfied you the customer.
Regards - Ian

<hr width=100% size=1>Play the best game you can with the cards you've been dealt ! ! !

 

[tcm]

Re: dealer behaviour

true.

The important thing about being a dealer is to make friends with the customer, get round to THEIR side of the table, batting for them, against the poxy facey manufacturers.

So, when all the gear goes rancid, ..."

I've tried calling the manufacturer, martin, god knows - YOU know - i've tried! But will they return your calls? or my calls ? - no, they won't. I know you want it to work - and I want it to work too! I've only charged the going rates (ie including at least 40% margin ahem) and with all this runback we're hardly making anything, but if there's anything you need, anything we can do, perhaps find you a purpose-made doorstop instead of the electronic- navigation- system-shaped version, then i'll see what we can do. And of course I'll call the maunfactuerss again to see if any news about your complaints, as i do every single day.... "

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[Medskipper]

Hi Martin,

Sorry to hear you are having problems!

I seem to recall from my days of retailing that if an item purchased is not of merchantable quality/not fit for the job it was designed for. You have the right to reject it completely from the company that you purchased it from and ask for a replacement. They in turn must take it up with their supplier or manufacturers! I believe that if you allow the said item to be repaired by whoever you purchased it from you lose the right to demand a new replacement!

Of course you still have the legal right to make sure that your supplier gets the faulty item working to your satisfaction, but if I am correct there is no real time limit on this! The moral of the story is don't let a supplier of anything try and repair something which has gone wrong, insist on a replacement straight away!

Regards Barry

P.S. How the devil are you, long time no hear and you ignore my messages!! kisses to the lovely Leanne! I bet you can't talk to her with all this Football on!!


<hr width=100% size=1>I just want to retire with my boat to the Med!