LED Nav light bulbs

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sent thomas

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Every body seems to be changing over to LED nav light bulbs and also using LED lights in other lights on board.
I thought i would share my findings that "SOME" LED lights wipe out your radio signal, also more dangerous is the fact they wipe out your AIS signal too!
I had some expesive LED bulbs (£35) and noticed my radio stopped working! after a few weeks and experiments i narrowed it down to nav light bulbs! Then i found that with the AIS all turned on i could switch the bulbs on and wipe all the boats off the screan! I tried the bulbs in another boat and had the same result.
Finally i bought cheap crappy LED bulbs and all is fine!

Scary stuff!
 
sent thomas said:
Every body seems to be changing over to LED nav light bulbs and also using LED lights in other lights on board.
I thought i would share my findings that "SOME" LED lights wipe out your radio signal, also more dangerous is the fact they wipe out your AIS signal too!
I had some expesive LED bulbs (£35) and noticed my radio stopped working! after a few weeks and experiments i narrowed it down to nav light bulbs! Then i found that with the AIS all turned on i could switch the bulbs on and wipe all the boats off the screan! I tried the bulbs in another boat and had the same result.
Finally i bought cheap crappy LED bulbs and all is fine!

Scary stuff!
Click to expand...

The troublesome ones cannot have been CE marked if they are interfering with other equipment...
 
The ones that operate "10-35 volts with no change in brightness" or similsr have a fast switching circuit to control the current that the bulbs take.

That fast switching produces interference, probably from LW to above VHF. AIS uses a marine VHF channel so will suffer the same problem.

If the antenna is close to the LED (=masthead) you probablywill get interference. The supply cable may also radiate.

The 12 volt LEDs that have constant brightness may also create interfere.

This can be reduced (hopefully to below noticeable levels) but not completely eliminated.
Use 12 volt only LEDs and keep them away from VHF (and AIS), in fact all antennas and check the effect on all radios, LW to VHF.

It MAY help to fit two ceramic capacitors across the LED supply cable, one of 1000pf (=1nF) and one of 10,000pF (=0.01uF), with VERY short leads, especially the first one. See Maplin for supply.
 
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Although the bulb's regulator is generating the interference, it's probably your wiring which is transmitting it to the radio, either by conduction or radiation. Some capacitors as suggested will help, also perhaps some ferrite beads on the supply.
It may be that your supply and return cables are well separated, creating a current loop. Twisting cables together can help this.
It's not normal for the VHF to be the victim, LW receivers and Navtex are more vulnerable. Mobile phone chargers often interfere with these.
 
sent thomas said:
Every body seems to be changing over to LED nav light bulbs and also using LED lights in other lights on board.
I thought i would share my findings that "SOME" LED lights wipe out your radio signal, also more dangerous is the fact they wipe out your AIS signal too!
I had some expesive LED bulbs (£35) and noticed my radio stopped working! after a few weeks and experiments i narrowed it down to nav light bulbs! Then i found that with the AIS all turned on i could switch the bulbs on and wipe all the boats off the screan! I tried the bulbs in another boat and had the same result.
Finally i bought cheap crappy LED bulbs and all is fine!

Scary stuff!
Click to expand...

Go on then, do tell - which brand? ;)

Edit Could be going back down the wiring in your case, just as dodgy.

I just tried a handheld with the antenna touching an inside led with regulation, tiny bit of noise on weaker sigs, stronger ones no effect.

Sounds like you had a dodgy design.
 
I did rectify the problem, i changed brand! one of the bulbs was at the other end of the boat about 14m from the VHF and AIS arials!
The point is, the fact that LED bulbs can inter fear with, what could be considered, safety equipment is not well known enough!
 
Can 12v LED lights be directly connected to a leisure battery?
I am looking at some 12v LED lights, that use 5amps, i want to use them in my camper van which has a 12v 110amp leisure battery.
 
All CE marked lamps have to be tested and pass a type test to ensure that they do not cause electro magnetic interference. The test is actually very comprehensive and is the most significant part of the CE approval for a low voltage LED lamp. If a supplier sells lamps that cause interference then the lamps cannot be CE approved and are simply not fit for purpose. Sent them back and ask for a refund.

A competent supplier will have on file a copy of the written CE test report. Unfortunately, it is a fact that not all suppliers understand what they are selling, claiming that their particular products are suitable for use on boats and actually they are not, hence the confusion and debate that often arises on these threads.

Broad brush damnation is also unfair and scaremongering unnecessary. If boat owners take a little care when purchasing replacement lamps and ask questions of suppliers such as 'are your lamps EMI free' ; if the answer isn't convincing then simply steer clear.

There has been considerable progress made in recent years in the design of electronic constant current, buck-boost control circuits and good quality design results in low RF interference.

Regards
 
The CE system is particularly misleading when it comes to LED navigation lights.
All lights, whether for navigation or not, have to comply with the Electromagnetic Compatibility directive (EMC) and/or the Low Voltage directives (LVD). If they comply they can carry a CE mark, but that CE mark doesn't mean they comply as navigation lights.
No, for that they must comply with the Marine Equipment Directive. But, if your light has a CE mark - on the box or the item itself - how do you know if that's telling you it's simply EMC compliant or if it complies as a navigation light?
The answer should accompany the light - if it's simply EMC/LVD compliant it doesn't need to be accompanied by a copy of the certificate of conformity. If the CE mark is telling you it complies as a navigation light there will be a certificate of conformity included with the paperwork - usually part of the instruction manual - and this will tell you for what type/size of vessel the light complies.
Incidentally, this goes also for things like washing machines, for instance, that have to comply with LVD/EMC as well as several other safety and operational directives - check out your washing machine instruction manual - it'll be in there.
The biggest issue comes when you take your CE marked Hella or Aquasignal light, remove the bulb with which it came, and stick in an LED. Now, the manufacturers CE mark and supporting documentation no longer applies. The LED might carry a CE mark because it's EMC compliant but not because it complies as a navigation light.
On the initial question of interference, the problem comes with buck regulated LEDs that operate at higher frequencies - some operate at around 150KHz but others operate at more than 1 MHz and these seem to be the troublemakers. Hopefully most manufacturers will have come to grips with this problem by now and we'll encounter the problem very rarely. Best to check, though, and return to the seller if a problem exists.
 
Waltraud said:
Can 12v LED lights be directly connected to a leisure battery?
I am looking at some 12v LED lights, that use 5amps, i want to use them in my camper van which has a 12v 110amp leisure battery.
Click to expand...
Are you sure you haven't got your units a bit mixed up?

I think you mean you have a 12 volt 110 Amp-Hour (Ah) battery. (Actually it will be 12.7 volts when charged and will deliver FAR MORE than 110 amps if you put a suitable load on it.)

In simple terms 110 Ah means 110 amps for one hour or 1 amp for 110 hours or any combination that multiplies up to 110 - it isn't that simple in practice but hopefully you get the idea.

Similarly, are you sure that the LED's take 5 Amps? That's a LOT of current for some LED's. A few hundred milliamps (ie thousanths of an amp) would be more like it.

By comparison a 25 watt masthead tricolour standard bulb draws a little over 2 amps.
 
I've replaced my cabin lights with LED's to save power like many.
They are Labcraft units taking BA9 bulbs (very small bayonets)
After a few failures I have found LED bulbs which are bright enough. (can't recall make at the moment)

However , we were watching the Pageant on my little telly (a Maplins 7"job with stick ariel set on the top of the sprayhood when I noticed that switching on one light totally eradicated the TV signal (digital)
Switching on the other light left it unaffected.

The lights were roughly 90 deg from each other with the TV in the middle.

First time I have noticed the effect the OP is referring to
 
sent thomas said:
Every body seems to be changing over to LED nav light bulbs and also using LED lights in other lights on board.
I thought i would share my findings that "SOME" LED lights wipe out your radio signal, also more dangerous is the fact they wipe out your AIS signal too!
I had some expesive LED bulbs (£35) and noticed my radio stopped working! after a few weeks and experiments i narrowed it down to nav light bulbs! Then i found that with the AIS all turned on i could switch the bulbs on and wipe all the boats off the screan! I tried the bulbs in another boat and had the same result.
Finally i bought cheap crappy LED bulbs and all is fine!

Scary stuff!
Click to expand...
nice really nice thought. i think it is better to opt for cheap led lights..Even I am using less expensive ones and really satisfied with the outcomes:)
 
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