LED and Laser Distress Flares - do you rely on them?

[salar]

My pyrotechnic flares are out of date, and I'm wondering whether to go for a LED Flare as an alternative. I can see pros and cons of each type, so I'm interested to know what other forumites are using. Traditional only, LED only or a mixture just to be doubly sure?

 

[ip485]

Entirely LED.

The electronic flares are combined with various other means of electronically identifying my position should the need arise, so this complete package is good enough for me.

 

[Sandy]

There have been several threads on this topic unsurprisingly it is a marmite subject.

Personally, I will only ever use pyrotechnics and consider electronic flares as useful as a chocolate teapot.

 

[maxi77]

I think the big problem with electronic devices, good though they may be, is there is no recognised standard for them so they may not be recognised as an emergency device. After all there are plenty of instances of laser devices being used inappropriately. If it was my life on the line I would go for recognised means of indicating my distress and position

 

[Plum]

My pyrotechnic flares are out of date, and I'm wondering whether to go for a LED Flare as an alternative. I can see pros and cons of each type, so I'm interested to know what other forumites are using. Traditional only, LED only or a mixture just to be doubly sure?

They are not a recognised distress signal, so no, I would not rely on them. They are good for highlighting your positikn to the emergency survices when they are getting close to you and they are confronted with 6 white sailboats and not knowing which one to head for first. Pyrotechnics are a good backup to DSC fixed VHF, hand-held vHF, PLB, EPIRB, mobile phone.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[ip485]

They are not a recognised distress signal, so no, I would not rely on them. They are good for highlighting your positikn to the emergency survices when they are getting close to you and they are confronted with 6 white sailboats and not knowing which one to head for first. Pyrotechnics are a good backup to DSC fixed VHF, hand-held vHF, PLB, EPIRB, mobile phone.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

It depends very much what you mean by recognised.

For example; Daniamant’s Odeo Flare™ approved by the Finnish Boating Federation - Daniamant

The US coast guard are currently devleoping standards for electronic flares, so by this definition you would be correct, because there isnt yet a standard.

I suspect there are some (I am not suggesting you are one of those) who will not recognise electronic flares as an alternative even when there is a standard. (and not saying this is wrong).

Personally I find these flares are really very good at drawing anyone to your exact position, but absolutely combined with the various other means of communication and distress.

 

[salar]

They are not a recognised distress signal, so no, I would not rely on them. They are good for highlighting your positikn to the emergency survices when they are getting close to you and they are confronted with 6 white sailboats and not knowing which one to head for first. Pyrotechnics are a good backup to DSC fixed VHF, hand-held vHF, PLB, EPIRB, mobile phone.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

I'm not sure what you mean by "recognised"? If a bright red light is flashing SOS I think that would be recognised by most people! The MCA takes a more pedantic view with the term in their MIN https://assets.publishing.service.g...ment_data/file/876625/MIN_542_Amendment_1.pdf where they don't include non-pyrotechnics in their requirements for vessels over 13.7 metres but there aren't specific requirements for smaller vessels anyway. My worry is that pyrotechnics have limited visibility - 50 seconds for a red handheld I think - and we only carry a few usually. LEDS have a much longer visible time but the MCA belives they wouldn't be recognised as a distress signal which I find hard to believe, but I don't claim to be as experienced as the combined MCA. However, there are a lot of traditionalists in the MCA so I'm still not sure who to believe. Hence the question, even though it has been debated before.

 

[ip485]

The RYA take a different view.

"In the RYA’s view, the practical drawbacks of pyrotechnic flares and their limited effectiveness in distress alerting, combined with the availability of alternative electronic distress alerting and location indicating technology, mean that pyrotechnic flares are now obsolescent."

 

[Sandy]

The RYA take a different view.

"In the RYA’s view, the practical drawbacks of pyrotechnic flares and their limited effectiveness in distress alerting, combined with the availability of alternative electronic distress alerting and location indicating technology, mean that pyrotechnic flares are now obsolescent."

I'd be more interested to hear the views of the Lifeboats, RNLI and Independants, and the CG helicopter pilots as I strongly suspect few in the RYA have participated in rescues.

 

[MoodySabre]

DSC VHF, a PLB and a couple of bright torches. Pyros long gone.

 

[Ningaloo]

I think both are pretty redundant as primary distress signals on today's digital boats. I'd be using DSC to contact nearby vessels and EPIRB/PLB to get rescue services involved.
I do agree that if things are so bad that I'm in the life raft and the EPIRB has died, they might of use in guiding any searching rescuers to me. Hope am never in that situation.

I was going to skip pyrotechnics (other than those packed in the liferaft) until I realised they were mandatory. I guess I'll buy enough to be legal.

Other countries are not as relaxed/ complacent as UK and I think it is prudent to meet the local legal requirements when outside UK waters.

 

[ip485]

Sandy

"The RYA has published alternative carriage requirements which have been endorsed by both the MCA and the RNLI. The RYA Table of Guidelines for pleasure craft of less than 13.7m length, outlines the alternatives and combinations that may be considered."

Well if you are boradly less than 14 m the RNLI seems to endorse the RYA. (as does the MCA).

I suspect the problem is there is no international standard (yet) so the MCA's hands are tied until there is.

 

[Tranona]

I'd be more interested to hear the views of the Lifeboats, RNLI and Independants, and the CG helicopter pilots as I strongly suspect few in the RYA have participated in rescues.

As ip485 says the view is widely shared - and the RYA is reflecting that view in lobbying the MCA to remove the requirement for boats over 13.7m.

The OP ask what people are "using" to which the answer is strictly for most people "nothing" - the real questions are "are flares an appropriate way of summoning assistance" followed by "how many times are they actually used".

The RYA view, and the view of many yachtsmen is probably not and increasingly rarely - because of the growth in the alternative and far more effective methods of communication.

There are of course situations where a visual indication of a position might be useful and the LED devices do this.

 

[ctva]

When the rescue services / others are looking for you in a search, waving a PLB, or phone or even a laser flare around is no substitute for an ‘effin’ bright red or smoke flare to pin point your location.

 

[LadyInBed]

DSC VHF, a PLB and a couple of bright torches. Pyros long gone.

And if the boat is still afloat you can add AIS as a means of location.
I gave up flares some years back in favour of PLB and a Laser flare, though I still have a pack of probably OOD mini flares onboard.

 

[LadyInBed]

Del

 

[ip485]

Had all other means of obtaining a tow failed?

 

[Gary Fox]

Had all other means of obtaining a tow failed?

Are you suggesting that pyros should be a last resort? For what earthly reason would that be a seamanlike doctrine, except in blue water when you were hoping to see a ship on the horizon, and you were down to your last couple of flares?

 

[Sandy]

Sandy

"The RYA has published alternative carriage requirements which have been endorsed by both the MCA and the RNLI. The RYA Table of Guidelines for pleasure craft of less than 13.7m length, outlines the alternatives and combinations that may be considered."

Well if you are boradly less than 14 m the RNLI seems to endorse the RYA. (as does the MCA).

I suspect the problem is there is no international standard (yet) so the MCA's hands are tied until there is.

I shall need to find my usual posting that shows an overturned RNLI Inshore Lifeboat in Ireland being searched for by a CG helicopter and an all weather LB. Only when the ILB popped up a flare did the helicopter pilot spot them.

We all take decisions about what safety kit we take, I'll keep my pyrotechnics thank you. After five years with a mountain rescue team I know they work and I know how pilots like them.

 

[prv]

Watching the sea-school across the harbour setting off hand flares - presumably as part of a Sea Survival course - was a good advert for the things. You couldn’t miss them doing it, even in bright daylight you’d catch the light in the corner of your eye and be drawn to look at it.

I’d turn to the VHF first to communicate my distress and I have an EPIRB on board - but I’m also very happy to keep carrying rocket, hand, and smoke flares as well.

Pete