Leave in/take ashore - for winter???

Jumbleduck and PVB and Dunedin.
I agree with both scenarios!;)
I think my two main concerns are possible damage/loss on/from mooring and possible stress in the cradle.

Khamsin weighs 3.5tonnes, is heavily built so there is a lot of weight pressing on four cradle pads and her fin keel.
I'm ignorant of the mechanics, but is it possible that the hull might deform in such a situation?

Damage/loss from staying afloat? Hopefully my mooring and tackle are well up to the job, but I'm hoping to get the whole mooring installation checked very soon. (More expense ;))

I'm well up on decommissioning etc and I think the yard will allow me to do my own work (I'll know more tomorrow). I actually enjoy that side of the winter's tasks.
Yes, you are correct - a mile across open sea loch is a worry. Not a problem driving an hour to Ullapool, unless it snows like stink before I can get back over the high road!!!!

Thanks
 
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Robert Wilson said:
Jumbleduck and PVB and Dunedin.
I agree with both scenarios!;)
I think my two main concerns are possible damage/loss on/from mooring and possible stress in the cradle.

Khamsin weighs 3.5tonnes, is heavily built so there is a lot of weight pressing on four cradle pads and her fin keel.
I'm ignorant of the mechanics, but is it possible that the hull might deform in such a situation?

Damage/loss from staying afloat? Hopefully my mooring and tackle are well up to the job, but I'm hoping to get the whole mooring installation checked very soon. (More expense ;))

I'm well up on decommissioning etc and I think the yard will allow me to do my own work (I'll know more tomorrow). I actually enjoy that side of the winter's tasks.
Yes, you are correct - a mile across open sea loch is a worry. Not a problem driving an hour to Ullapool, unless it snows like stink before I can get back over the high road!!!!

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
If the cradle is correctly set up there won't be a problem.

I believe that on old fibreglass boats it is a good idea to annually get the boat ashore and the mast down: the constant tension on rigging eventually leads to bowing and damage to rigging anchor points on the decking or coachroof.

I usually get the boat hauled out. Being a skinflint I decided to leave the boat on the water a few years ago, so I would not have to pay the haul out/haul in charges.
The one problem that did arise was excessive mildew, which comes along with the severe internal condensation you get in a fibreglass boat during the winter. This was despite the boat being lined out with foam and carpet, having had a tube heater on all winter. I never get this problem when the boat is in the yard.
 
Hmmmmmmmm.
Looking like "yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice" - I'm more or less decided to give the boatyard the job.
Only hesitating because she had been 30 months ashore until this May - no sailing, significant load on fin/hull but dry and well aired throughout.

Addenda:-
Just to confuse the issue more, I may have the chance of a haul-out and winter ashore in a local facility (Loch Ewe), but the chap is away and I can't reach him.
I'm sure that would be much less expensive, be readily accessible and flexible as to when out/in.

How frustrating!
 
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We stay in - but that is staying in at a reasonably sheltered marina on the south coast of England. Boats are expensive things at the best of times - doubly so if you only use them six months of the year. We sail all the year round. They are also designed to be supported floating in water with the load distributed evenly across the entire hull area, not to spend six months sitting on their keel and the remaining weight distributed across four pads about the size of cigarette packets. Your boat is at a lot less risk securely tied up against a marina berth with plenty of fenders around it.

Now, the above is very definitely written from the point of view of a Solent marina dweller. If our pride and joy was moored to a trot buoy somewhere round the coast of Scotland, I may well come to a different conclusion!
 
Robert Wilson said:
Are you saying you would be surprised NOT to see blisters/moisture, or that to see them would BE a surprise?
.
Click to expand...

I would NOT be surprised.

It's pretty unusual to see a 1970s boat with low hull moisture levels and no blisters. When you do see one it's either been ashore longer in those 40+ years than it's afloat (does happen) or someone has at some point paid a substantial part of the boat value for an "osmosis treatment".

Personally I'm fairly relaxed about high hull moisture and/or small to medium gelcoat blisters on most older boats, but the "newbies" who buy them as low cost first cruisers sometimes think they'll melt like sugar and that it's desperately important to get them "osmosis treated" immediately. It almost always kills the sale, and you have to wait to find a buyer who understands it all. Or take a huge hit on the selling price.

Steel boats rust, wooden ones rot, GRP boats get blisters: in fact probably the lowest risk of long-term deterioration is either a well looked after alloy yacht, or (horror of ultimate horrors in most peoples' minds) a well-built ferrocement hull. The problem with alloy is that minor maintenance/fitout mistakes can cause major corrosion problems. The problem with ferro is that many are badly amateur built - the good ones are incredibly tough. Overall old-fashioned 1960s/70s low-tech GRP is a pretty good compromise. Even with a wet hull and blisters still strong enough, and easily repaired.
 
Great help! ;)
Actually, my cradle pads are about 300x150mm, and I also use Acrow props under the bow and the stern. Even so, I am aware of the weight on the fin and points of the hull.

If you all could guarantee a nice mildish, calmish winter I'd be leaving her in, no problem. That said, I'll bet I still wouldn't sail very much between 1st November and 1st March the daylights is in short supply:(
 
Robert Wilson said:
..... in Loch Ewe. It is sheltered from all but the worst NW storms (and they can be BAD).
The mooring is a mile away across the loch, which in medium to high winds/seas is a perilous journey in a dinghy.....
Click to expand...

That would be the decision maker for me. I think if you live it in when that "bad" NW Storm arrives you may lose the boat.

Regarding GRP drying out I don't think it does any good. The water vapour that is free to move in and out has already started to react with any uncured resin chemicals and the molecule size of the reactive products are too big to pass through.

Move your boat because it could get wrecked in the bad storm, which are not exactly uncommon in the winter.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Why not? Very low partial pressure of water vapour at low temperatures, even with high relative humidity.
Click to expand...

Polar air is dry. Plus it's not just the drying effect, it is the not-wetting effect ie she isn't in the water so no take up of moisture so takes twice as long to get wet etc.
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
Regarding GRP drying out I don't think it does any good. The water vapour that is free to move in and out has already started to react with any uncured resin chemicals and the molecule size of the reactive products are too big to pass through.
Click to expand...

Agree, it's one of those folklore beliefs. If you look at how difficult it is to dry a hull properly for osmosis treatment, after the gelcoat has been peeled off, you realise that just parking the boat in a damp boatyard over the winter does nothing.
 
Robert Wilson said:
A balanced response - so far!
A1Sailor:
I can afford the extra £250, but I'd rather not!

Kelpie:
After two years ashore I reckon my winter's job list will be minimal.
The year I left her in even the fishermen wouldn't take me out because that NW'ly was SO bad!
My moorings haven't been checked since laid in 2010, but everyone reckons they are so heavy and over-engineered they won't be a risk. (I'll be replacing the warps (two) this autumn anyway.
I agree about loads to the hull when on the cradle. Two years ashore can't have done her any good...

Minn:
Drying-out? Past Forum posts seem to be evenly split on that, some say not a problem "not to dry out", especially on a 70's thick-hulled boat. I'm not so sure :confused:

LW95:
My Insurers have always been happy with the position and with her leaving-in. I'm not keen on asking them again in case they take the opportunity to change their minds!
Getting a lift to her is usually no problem - but see my response to Kelpie:eek:

Spyro:
Interesting comment. At least our weather produces fresh water douching; is fresh any better/worse/no different than salt water?

Thank you.
Forgive me for saying, but I'm still in a quandary:rolleyes:
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Not checking your mooring since 2008 scares me.
In Portsmouth or Langstone harbours I've seen inch chain reduced to 'scary' in 5 years. Maybe that doesn't happen where you have not got our mud? If it did break, I wonder what your insurers would say?
The point about the RIB is more about visiting the boat during a long period of moderately foul weather, rather than into the teeth of a storm when you wouldn't be able to do anything anyway. When it's F5 and choppy it's tempting to leave it to tomorrow when you've only got a dinghy with a small outboard.
OTOH, I think I worry more when the boat is ashore. For every boat that gets blown off its mooring there is one getting blown over ashore, give or take Holyhead messing with the averages.
Some people get some good winter marina deals then do a quick scrub and AF in the Easter sunshine.

Also I think there is real value in having the boat close to home, unless you have absolutely no work to do on her.
 
I think this comes down to how well will you sleep with her in each location as most other factors are a bit meh.

If that NWly comes in, how much extra would you be wishing you'd paid to get that extra night or two of sleep?
 
Robert Wilson said:
I think my two main concerns are possible damage/loss on/from mooring and possible stress in the cradle.

Khamsin weighs 3.5tonnes, is heavily built so there is a lot of weight pressing on four cradle pads and her fin keel.
I'm ignorant of the mechanics, but is it possible that the hull might deform in such a situation?
Click to expand...

If you do it right the keel will take almost all the weight and the pads will simply balance her upright. Assuming that the keel is about half the weight of the boat (ish), that means that the keel-hull join will be under the same compressive force ashore as it is under tensile force afloat. If you're not worried about the hull stretching over the summer there is no need to worry about it squashing over the winter!
 
Ah, very cogent :encouragement:
AFAIK in past years I have supported the weight on the keel and as you say using the legs/pads for balance; but I haven't put my fingers under the keel when settling her onto the ground, so I don't know if half of the 3.5tonnes is on the ground...………………… ;)

I'm away to the Ullapool boatyard in an hour and it's looking like I'll be going with them, for this winter at least.
The local yard won't be ready until next winter.

I'll post later today to put you all out of your misery :D:D:D
 
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