Leaking shaft glands - not what you want to see on your holiday!!!

Hurricane

Hurricane

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This afternoon, I posted this report on our summer cruise round the south of Mallorca.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?408220-Summer-2014-Mallorca-cruise
In the post, I mentioned that I would start another thread on some of the technical challenges that we experienced this year.
We encountered our first problem just after crossing to Mallorca from our home berth at Sant Carles on mainland Spain.
I will post a third (separate) thread on our entirely unconnected engine problem.

We were in the favourite anchorage of Santa Ponsa and during our daily check, we discovered some water in our engine room bilge.
We keep Jennywren clean and fully maintained so we knew immediately that something was wrong.
So I checked to see if it was salty water and where it was coming from.
Water was clearly dripping from our starboard shaft gland.
Our previous boat had the older conventional stuffing boxes but JW is fitted with Tides Marine Sureseal system.
This is the seal in question
SureSeal-Housings-with-labe_f_improf_532x239.png

I believe that these days, these seals are fairly standard but I have never, personally, experienced any failures.
The manual claims that they are guaranteed for 2500 hours or 2 years.
Thankfully, Princess installed two spare seals on each shaft so it was going to be a simple matter of fitting a new seal.
Later that day, we moved to the less exposed anchorage of Cala Portals.
As soon as we were safely anchored, I sat down and read the Sureseal manual.
We were shipping water at anchor and at a rate of about a bucket per hour so something had to be done.

The Sureseal manual looked fairly straight forward - you simply undo 5 screws, cut the old seal off and slide the spare one down the shaft - ALL WHILE THE BOAT IS STILL IN THE WATER - that was the bit that scared me!!
By now, we were only three days into our long summer cruise so I telephoned Peter Harwood in Swanwick - he is the guy that all us Princess owners call when we have a problem.
Within a few minutes, he had put me in contact with Ian at Princess in Mallorca.
I explained to Ian I thought I could do it myself but, under the circumstances, I would rather pay someone to do it for me - and that I would rather have a travel hoist nearby - JUST IN CASE!!!
Ian arranged for an engineer to be available the following morning in Puerto Portals - thankfully only 3 miles from where we were anchored.
That night SWMBO and I were up every couple of hours to keep the engine room as dry as possible.
In fact, during the whole episode the water never even reached the bilge pumps.
So, as agreed, we made our way to the waiting quay at Portals and as promised, met their Spanish engineer.
He didn't speak much English but filled me with confidence that he knew what he was doing.
And after a small problem removing one of the screws, I joined him in a VERY hot engine room so that I could see what he was doing.
Initially, he swooshed some of the water away from where he was working.
He looked at me and in broken English with a beaming smile on his face, said "I AM PREPARING FOR THE FIESTA"
Bad joke - I thought.

But it really wasn't that bad.
The manual was correct - you remove the clamp/ring - pull the old seal out and slide the new one down the shaft.
Here's a link to a video showing how it is done.
https://www.tidesmarine.com/sureseal-video
Easy isn't it!!!!
In my case you have to (kind of) stand on your head with your arse in the air and shoulders down in the void where the seal is located.
Also the brass brushes that make that galvanic circuit to the shaft have to be removed.
However, having said all that, next time I would do it on my own - but I would make sure that I knew where the nearest travel hoist was - JUST IN CASE!!

Anyway, a huge thanks to all the support guys at Princess.
A problem like this could really ruin your holiday.
Big thanks to Peter in the UK and to Ian and his team in Mallorca.
 
I had a very scary experience with the original Deep Sea Seals fitted to my last boat, one of which started leaking badly in the middle of the Adriatic. I only found out because the high water bilge alarm in the engine bay went off. I then compounded the problem by tightening the leaking seal and continuing to use that engine which could have been fatal because I found out later that if you tighten the seal, you should shut down that engine because of the risk of the shaft tearing the seal to pieces. Anyway we made it back to our marina in Croatia and got lifted immediately. Unfortunately, nobody had a spare DSS seal in Croatia so I had to drive several hours into Italy to get a new seal. The result was 3 days lost of our precious holiday. The DSS seal is a really rubbish piece of design which effectively depends on 2 hose clips and friction to hold the 2 sealing parts together.
After that experience and following advice on this forum, I changed both DSS seals for Tides seals and had a further 2 seasons out of the boat without an issue. The Tides seal is a far superior design to the DSS seal in my opinion. The seals are held in position by a positively fixed housing rather than friction and of course, as you found out, the beauty of it is that you can change a seal with the boat in the water rather than having to lift it out which AFAIK every other seal system requires (somebody correct me if I'm wrong on this). Interestingly on my latest Ferretti, they seem to have ditched the DSS seals for what looks like a Tides seal although it isn't actually branded Tides
 
Really interesting and thanks for posting this. Have just emailed Fairline to see whether they use Tides seals and if so, to confirm that they fit a spare pair seals as standard! Seems crazy not to given the cost/hassle of lifting boat, removing shaft (presumably?) and refitting a seal versus just having a spare sat there ready to deploy in an emergency. Presumably you'll get another 'spare' fitted over the winter.

Oh, Fairline have just emailed back and they do use Tides and do fit a spare too :)
 
Of all the jobs I would consider doing myself shaft seals is not one of them! I was nervous enough just changing the depth sounder transducer ( which actually shifted water far faster than the manual suggested!).

Glad it was fixed.

I suppose the question now is when (if) do you bother to remove the shaft to put another spare on?

There was a thread a while ago about "do you do your daily checks". This rather proves the point. The water did not trigger the bilge alarm, so you spotted it early, got it fixed, nice holiday.

We are in Mallorca also and seeing all your pics was a lovely reminder.
 
jrudge said:
There was a thread a while ago about "do you do your daily checks". This rather proves the point. The water did not trigger the bilge alarm, so you spotted it early,
Click to expand...
Easy to say but in the case of my DSS seal, I did do a check before I set out and there was no excess water in the bilge. In my case what happened was that for some reason, the rotating part of the DSS seal on my boat moved on the shaft during the passage and thus allowed water to flow into the bilge. I nearly had a heart attack when I saw it because when I initially checked the bilges after the alarm went off, both shafts were still rotating at speed and there was a sort of huge catherine wheel of water spraying out of the seal. I suppose what I'm saying is that if you've got DSS seals on your boat, which are actually quite common, consider changing them for a better seal like the Tides
 
Deleted User said:
Easy to say but in the case of my DSS seal, I did do a check before I set out and there was no excess water in the bilge. In my case what happened was that for some reason, the rotating part of the DSS seal on my boat moved on the shaft during the passage and thus allowed water to flow into the bilge. I nearly had a heart attack when I saw it because when I initially checked the bilges after the alarm went off, both shafts were still rotating at speed and there was a sort of huge catherine wheel of water spraying out of the seal. I suppose what I'm saying is that if you've got DSS seals on your boat, which are actually quite common, consider changing them for a better seal like the Tides
Click to expand...

Mike, is it the PSS shaft seal you're referring to? If so I changed mine just a few months ago for similar PSS seals, although I did consider the Tides product but read a few negative reviews so decided to stick with what we've had for many years. Only changed them because they were at least 7 + years old.
 
longjohnsilver said:
Mike, is it the PSS shaft seal you're referring to? If so I changed mine just a few months ago for similar PSS seals, although I did consider the Tides product but read a few negative reviews so decided to stick with what we've had for many years. Only changed them because they were at least 7 + years old.
Click to expand...

Maybe I don't understand your question.
My seals are from Tides Marine
 
longjohnsilver said:
Mike, is it the PSS shaft seal you're referring to? If so I changed mine just a few months ago for similar PSS seals, although I did consider the Tides product but read a few negative reviews so decided to stick with what we've had for many years. Only changed them because they were at least 7 + years old.
Click to expand...
No its definitely the Deep Sea Seal http://www.deepseaseals.com. Have a look at the video on the same page; in my case it was the rotating part which moved back along the shaft removing any contact between the seal faces. I'm happy to be flamed by somebody who knows better but IMHO its a dreadful piece of engineering design
 
jrudge said:
I suppose the question now is when (if) do you bother to remove the shaft to put another spare on?
Click to expand...

When the boat was built, Princess fitted two spare seals on each shaft so my starboard shaft has one more left - the port, of course, has two left.
I was thinking the same
I was wondering if there is enough room between the prop and the rudder to unbolt the shaft from the gearbox, remove the flange and slide another seal onto the shaft.
But I was also thinking that the old seal has lasted nearly 9000 miles so maybe the seals that are left will last until the cutless bearings etc need replacing.
At that time, I will replace the lot.
 
I had Deep Sea Seals in my boat when I bought it looked fine in all ways, I changed the cutless bearings so drew the shafts and found the DSS seals had no spring left in them and we're cracked.

DSS are an old and carp design, I have also seen complete failure of one, scary! Avoid like the plague.

I have Tides Marine on my boat and I reckon they are the best around, we fit them wherever possible.

Be careful the Tides Marine seals have a water supply from each engine and not just one and the spare seal does not become contaminated with oil or grease or you should discard and not use.

Personally for peace of mind I have seen the video of how to change in the water, but I would prefer to lift out and hold in the slings while someone inspects the underside of the boat and pressure washes it, while I change the seals over.
 
Last edited:
MedMilo said:
Oh, Fairline have just emailed back and they do use Tides and do fit a spare too :)
Click to expand...
Yup they have been fitting them for ages. Your current and new boats have them. My 2004 sq58 had them, complete with the spare seal already on the shaft

Hurricane, thanks for all this info. But do you know what the red top hat is for? I've had them on my last several boats but never used them because I've never experienced any failure of a Tides seal. I thought it was to press the new seal home but on the video you linked to they didn't use it at all
 
jfm said:
Hurricane, thanks for all this info. But do you know what the red top hat is for? I've had them on my last several boats but never used them because I've never experienced any failure of a Tides seal. I thought it was to press the new seal home but on the video you linked to they didn't use it at all
Click to expand...

Yup that an easy one to answer
The red plastic thingy is used to initially get the actual seal onto the shaft with out damaging the smooth surfaces of the seal itself.
I've not taken our shafts apart yet but I think the gearbox end is tapered and threaded and held in place with a nut behind the gearbox flange.
It would be possible to damage a seal if you slide it over the threaded end when initially putting it on the shaft.

Thats what I was told anyway.

Maybe the boat builder should have thrown them away after fitting the seal - I don't think they are needed after installation.
 
Ah right, thanks, that makes sense. I guess that if you were doing a seal change as you recently did, and if the shaft surface were a bit rough, you could use the red thing to slide the seal into position without damaging its lips. That would be a reason not to chuck it away
 
jfm said:
Ah right, thanks, that makes sense. I guess that if you were doing a seal change as you recently did, and if the shaft surface were a bit rough, you could use the red thing to slide the seal into position without damaging its lips. That would be a reason not to chuck it away
Click to expand...

I don't know why - but I've kept mine as well!!
Even after this episode
 
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