Lead crystal batteries - Taking the plunge

[Monique]

Hi Gang,

Our house bank has headed south faster than we can sail there... woe is us! So we must replace our 8 X 100Ah lead acid batteries with something worthwhile.

After looking at the options (AGM, GEL and Lithium Ion) including checking comments regarding Lead Crystal batteries here... (mostly negative because "if it sounds too good to be true...) but I've decided to make the jump anyways. This came about after questioning the claims from the various "pushers" via a NZ distributor. The distributor seems genuine and their answers satisfied me. We will replace our 8 X 100Ah lead acid with exactly the same Ah batteries of same dimension, a big bonus. Given the claimed full discharge capabilities of the lead crystals, the new items should give more available power and make life aboard easier. (Our boat is an electrical GONZO)

If these batteries are as good as the claims, the purchase will be good value for money, especially as our permanent live aboard status exacts a heavy toll from batteries.

If I have problems I'll report back on this thread. Luck is a definite element here....

Blue side down

 

[RAI]

I had never heard of them. Interesting claims from the manufacturer though. Good luck with them and please report back on your experience.

 

[capnsensible]

A real life report will be great. Hope they work as planned! :encouragement:

 

[Yngmar]

Do tell. Where did you get them and what did they cost? Which ones? Where are the specs? Was delivery difficult?

 

[sailorman]

http://lead-crystalbatteries.co.uk/home

http://lead-crystalbatteries.co.uk/images/docs/User-Manual-Lead-Crystal-Batteries-ENG.pdf

 

[vyv_cox]

I spoke at length to a man selling these at the northern caravan show a few years ago. They were not called lead crystal then but I was most impressed. Marketing seemed to be a hurdle but looks like that may be solved.

 

[KellysEye]

I bought a Calcium battery at Halfords and when fully charged it is just over 15 volts.

 

[sailorman]

I bought a Calcium battery at Halfords and when fully charged it is just over 15 volts.

for how long

 

[GHA]

Did you have to change all your charging sources as well?

Quick look on google, seems charging profile is very different with current control and voltage control rather than just voltage?

Looks interesting though, do keep updating us please

http://lead-crystalbatteries.co.uk/technology/lead-crystal-battry-charging-technology

 

[macd]

for how long

Longer than his attention span, I suspect.

 

[Monique]

Did you have to change all your charging sources as well?

Quick look on google, seems charging profile is very different with current control and voltage control rather than just voltage?

Looks interesting though, do keep updating us please

http://lead-crystalbatteries.co.uk/technology/lead-crystal-battry-charging-technology

Greetings GHA,

I am in Tonga at the moment and ordered from Whangerei, NZ (Lusty & Blundell). My present electrics are in good nick.

- 450W solar through a Victron MPPT controller. Programmable for GEL which use the same settings as the "lead crystal".
- 2 X Victron 2460 Chargers which which are also fully compatible. I double checked as my 2 X Victron 2460's are new. Otherwise, I'd have gone with new GEL...
- Doing a full battery cable removal, cleaning, corrosion control and reinstall tomorrow.

The only loose end is the main engine generator which uses an old generation internal controller. I may have to upgrade to a higher output unit (40 Amp at present) with a smart external controller. Still discussing the details with electrical gurus in NZ.

My bottom line? If these things are 1/2 as good as claimed, I'm a winner. If only 1/3, still OK.

 

[Monique]

Do tell. Where did you get them and what did they cost? Which ones? Where are the specs? Was delivery difficult?

Hi Yngmar,

Purchased in NZ through Lusty and Blundell; cost is just short of €3600 incl delivery to Tonga.

Spec is 100Ah. X 8.

I hope to get approval for "yacht in Transit" and avoid import tax/duties.

Being in Tonga makes it difficult however you slice it... . Plus stuck in Vava'u until delivery.

 

[Yngmar]

Thanks Monique. Seems to be the 6-CNFJ-100 type then. They're about $120 on Alibaba, but then shipping batteries always is expensive and troublesome.

The real interesting bit seems to be this note there (on the Lusty & Blundell page):

Note: CNFJ series must be charged at a minimum of 30% of the C10 rated capacity in bulk phase. Refer to the product data sheet for detailed charging requirements.

Found the data sheet here and it confirms this. That's 30A you need to put in, per battery (for up to an hour if discharged below 50%, according to the graph). Or 240A if you have them all in one bank and charge them together.

Our patented Lead Crystal® Batteries have different charge characteristics compared to conventional lead based batteries and therefore need suitable chargers to function optimally.

That's why they sell special chargers for these batteries. The one suitable for the 100Ah battery indeed has a 30A output rating to achieve the correct charging regime.

That little footnote would seem to be the so far little mentioned downside of these lead crystal batteries, assuming they otherwise work as advertised. You cannot ever charge them correctly on your boat - you'd need 3kW solar to achieve these peak amp ratings for the entire bank together. Or a clever battery management system that runs them as individual batteries and switches between them for charging/discharging as needed - but I'm not aware of such a system and it would have other downsides. You can get away with half these crazy amperages if you run them like an AGM bank and never discharge them below 50%, but that's still much more than your chargers can muster.

So the question is how much their performance will suffer from never being correctly charged. Do keep us updated with your experience please.

 

[KellysEye]

>for how long

It does drop to 12 volts but I had to charge it less than other batteries it was used for an electric fence.

 

[Tranona]

I bought a Calcium battery at Halfords and when fully charged it is just over 15 volts.

Can you explain the relevance of this to the thread which is about lead crystal batteries?

Nothing to do with the battery for your electric fence.

Don't you ever read what has been written before posting?

 

[Monique]

Thanks Monique. Seems to be the 6-CNFJ-100 type then. They're about $120 on Alibaba, but then shipping batteries always is expensive and troublesome.

The real interesting bit seems to be this note there (on the Lusty & Blundell page):


Found the data sheet here and it confirms this. That's 30A you need to put in, per battery (for up to an hour if discharged below 50%, according to the graph). Or 240A if you have them all in one bank and charge them together.



That's why they sell special chargers for these batteries. The one suitable for the 100Ah battery indeed has a 30A output rating to achieve the correct charging regime.

That little footnote would seem to be the so far little mentioned downside of these lead crystal batteries, assuming they otherwise work as advertised. You cannot ever charge them correctly on your boat - you'd need 3kW solar to achieve these peak amp ratings for the entire bank together. Or a clever battery management system that runs them as individual batteries and switches between them for charging/discharging as needed - but I'm not aware of such a system and it would have other downsides. You can get away with half these crazy amperages if you run them like an AGM bank and never discharge them below 50%, but that's still much more than your chargers can muster.

So the question is how much their performance will suffer from never being correctly charged. Do keep us updated with your experience please.

Hi Yngmar,

We have 2 X Victron 2460's (60 Amp each and I can connect both simultaneously) for battery charging. Coupled with my genset, charging will be done quickly

 

[RichardS]

Don't you ever read what has been written before posting?

Why change the habit of a lifetime?

Richard

 

[Yngmar]

Hi Yngmar,

We have 2 X Victron 2460's (60 Amp each and I can connect both simultaneously) for battery charging. Coupled with my genset, charging will be done quickly

Ah, had missed the genset and the rating of those chargers. Nice, but still only half the needed amperage. You could either split the bank in two, or just run them like AGMs and never go below 50%, which the batteries hopefully won't mind. It's still an awful lot of capacity

Edit: Ahhh, they're 24/60 - 24V boat! Now the math works out

 

[Monique]

Ah, had missed the genset and the rating of those chargers. Nice, but still only half the needed amperage. You could either split the bank in two, or just run them like AGMs and never go below 50%, which the batteries hopefully won't mind. It's still an awful lot of capacity

Edit: Ahhh, they're 24/60 - 24V boat! Now the math works out

I knew you'd get it eventually... .

 

[Monique]

We should receive the batteries today if the inefficient/ineffective Tonga customs get their paper work completed. Installation will occur as soon as received.