Lazy jacks

guydickinson

guydickinson

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Got to change my mainsail boom cover and the question of whether lazy jacks are worth installing arises as they'll need a different sort of cover I guess. I know there have been some posts before. Have a 34 ft bermudian. Currently use the autopilot when alone to hold into wind to drop/raise the mainsail (perhaps shouldn't rely on it). Any thoughts please?!!
 
A "StackPack" type system was the best thing we did on our boat.

After researching abit, we made two modifications to the design (instructions to the maker)... we specified that the sides of the canvas material be designed to roll-up, and be strapped to the side of the boom. This gets rid of the material while sailing if we so wish.

The second change we specified was that the "halyards" holding the set of lines up could be lowered maually if required - hoisting the main while the lazyjacks are hoisted can cause them to get caught. The first thing we do when we go out is to drop the lazyjack lines before hoisting the main.

Hope that helps...
 
You can rig lazy jacks, ie. the lines running from the mast to the boom to retain the sail when lowered, fairly easily and cheaply. However, as you refer to changing the cover, I presume that you are talking about a full stackpack system.

A stackpack system for a 34 footer will cost you £300 - £450 depending upon quality and what deals the sailmaker is offering. The general consensus on the Forum is that Quay Sails at Poole make a good one and that is where we got ours from (see it on the link below). Its use has made a terrific difference to our sailing when short-handed - we can drop our mainsail very quickly without the need to mess with cable ties and spend time out of the cockpit in a choppy sea.
 
Made my own sail cover / lazyjack system out of Sunbrella. I sail mostly alone and hoisting or lowering of the main is a doddle. Wouldn't be without it.
 
Perhaps I was doing something wrong, but I found them to be a pain in the neck and worse than useless. Unless I was exactly head to wind the sail kept catching on the lazyjacks as I was raising it. The only benefit I found was that it was easy to tidy away the sail under dead calm or motoring windward.
 
Basically you need to make sure that the mainsheet is free so that the boom will align itself with the wind. You would be motoring to windward anyway.
You also need to keep an eye on the leech while hoisting and time the moment when to hoist the part with a batten past the lazyjack.
To make it easier, have the aftermost lines on a clip so that, if need be, you can unclip them from the sail cover and re-clip them closer to the mast, say, to the next attachment point. This collapses the nest of triangles to a narrower base, making it easier for the battens to clear.
 
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Perhaps I was doing something wrong, but I found them to be a pain in the neck and worse than useless. Unless I was exactly head to wind the sail kept catching on the lazyjacks as I was raising it.

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This is the usual problem with lazyjacks - getting in the way while hoisting it. Quay Sails made ours and made an extra long "halyard" (the line that hoists the whole string triangle business up to somewhere along the mast about 3/4 way up. This means that we can grab the triangle lines, pull them downwards and forwards towards the mast so that they lie along the boom, and hook them under a cleat at the mast. The hoisting line is long enough to allow this and still have line left over to cleat the whole thing off at the mast. This takes about 30 seconds per side, and leaves the whole mainsail free for quick hoisting. Without doing this, it is indeed a pain in the ass.

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The only benefit I found was that it was easy to tidy away the sail under dead calm or motoring windward.

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We found the opposite - the real benefit is that you can drop the mainsail quickly and easily while short-handed in a rising wind. Its so much easier than having sail cloth flailing all over the cabin roof while the wind howls around your ears.

ps. a friend installed lazyjacks (just the lines) without the bag system - most of the benefit without most of the cost.
 
Like one of the other posters, we hook the lazy jacks on the reef hook at the front of the boom, where they stay until we want to lower the sail. As soon as the sail is down the lazy jacks are then "stowed" so we can fit the conventional cover without leaving the lazy jacks flying in the breeze.
When we got the boat I hated the things - every time we hoisted the sail, they caught and created all kinds of arguments so I removed them - wow, what a mistake. With a centre cockpit boat, the main tends to be quite high so neither SWMBO or the kids could reach to stow it quickly.
The lazy jacks went back on pdq but with the idea of hooking them out of the way.
I have further refined the system by changing the conventional cleats on the mast to cam cleats so they can be released and tensioned quickly - important if your boom is raised when the sail is stowed. The tail of the lazy jack is fed through the eye of the cam cleat and terminated with a stopper knot.

Hope that helps.
 
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ps. a friend installed lazyjacks (just the lines) without the bag system - most of the benefit without most of the cost.


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We have had both a stackpak cover system which we fitted on our last boat and a plain lazyjack system with standard cover on our current boat.

The stackpak worked really well, this was on a Westerly 33 Ketch which was fitted with a fully battened mainsail and the lazyjack lines could be lowered and laid along the boom out of the way if required but we never found it necessary. The downside we found was that despite the flap covering the zip rainwater still found it's way into the cover and stained the sail over time in grey 'stripes' through each layer of flaked sailcloth and there was also some mildew over time because no airflow gets into this kind of cover.

Our current boat has a much taller rig and altogether bigger mainsail, also fully battened and a Stackpak to fit would be very large and not very pretty under sail. We could have added a system to roll up the flaps as suggested elsewhere but that in some way defeats the convenience factor as you then have another job to do before hoisting and before dropping. We inherited lazyjacks with the boat which could be lowered and pulled forward to stow along the boom, being hooked under the slab reefing hooks that we no longer use with our 2-line 3 slab reef system and even when we replaced the cover we stayed with the standard one. It takes no real time to put on even the large cover we have after the sail is dropped into the lazyjacks although you do need to use sailties before lowering the lazyjack lines and fitting the cover. However the standard cover is of course open along the underneath and has no zip exposed at the top to allow dirty rain in so our very expensive mainsail stays nice and clean with no mildew either as even if the sail is put away wet, there is some ventilation. Our cover is a loose fit to encourage ventilation and make for easy fitting, we roll it up in large rolls starting from the outer end towards the mast and it goes back on the same way which is easy to do even singlehanded. As for dropping the lazyjacks for hoisting the main I have never found it necessary plus I want them in place ready to support any reefs put in, all of which are done from the cockpit, going on deck to re-raise the lazyjacks would be a PITA.

So I heartily endorse lazyjacks but the cover system is optional because there are advantages and disadvantages and the best compomise will depend on the individual, both boat and owner.
 
Jim and I mused over design of own Lazy Jacks and in the end came up with Lazy Jims ...

The main points :

a) easily fitted and disconnected to allow normal boom cover to be used.
b) adjustable so that they could optimised for sail dropping.
c) Cheap as possible without blocks or fancy bits.
d) could be made up away from boat and then fitted in one go.

This we achieved, but never got around to fit. Lazy !!

Material : light braid line. plenty of it.

Measure boom and cut a single length allowing enough extra to be able to tie of each end under boom. You could use clips if you wish. Lay this on floor straight. Mark of 3 points, equi-distant and 3rd is at about 65% boom length. These are where verticals and hypotenuse join.
Now cut another length that is 2x the distance UP mast from cleats, over spreaders and out at hypotenuse angle to 3rd outer mark on boom line. Adding a bit for making fast to cleats on mast. Lay this line on floor creating the triangle. take middle of line and make fast to boom line at that 3rd mark. make it a hard joint but able to be moved if necessary.
No cut 2 more lines to create the vertical drop lines from hypotenuse to under boom line, remembering to cut so that it drops down, clove hitch to boom line and than back up to other hypotenuse line. Allow a couple of cms slack. Knots used on hypotenuse should be good rolling hitches to allow you to adjust position if sail doesn't drop cleanly.

Now you have your Lazy Jims. Attachment is to basically have hypotenuse lines pass over spreaders and down to cleats at mast base. Under boom line can be made of UNDER the boom having outer connection able to be disconnected when sail is stowed and you want cover. Take line back to mast base. If you use reasonable quality soft nylon braid - there is no need for blocks or covers - in fact only line used.
If you are careful in the make up - it is possible you can slack the under boom line enough to fit a boom cover ...

lazyjim.gif


The biggest problem here of course is that it doesn't have a Fancy Label and Marine Price Tag - so it cannot work ... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
I fitted lazy-jacks to my long-battened mainsail. I was not keen on the appearance, or cost, of a stack-pack system, and I already had an almost new sail cover. As others have said, they are a real boon for dropping the sail, no need to go onto a rolling deck with sail-ties etc. True, a minor inconvenience for raising the sail.
Mine are adjustable at the goose-neck, but in practice I never touch them. They are set to suit the sail when it is filled, this is OK for holding the sail when dropped, with the kicker or topping lift just holding the weight of the boom. From the cockpit, I might fit a sail-tie near the aft end of the boom to control the sail if the final approach to harbour is, say, down-wind. The boom is finally raised prior to fitting the sail-cover, this gives slack on the lazy-jacks to allow them to pass out through the gap at the underside of the cover. Truly fit and forget, (almost!).
 
I have a zip up bag with lazyjacks & the bag has buckles so that it can be rolled inside itself against the boom if you want to get a better airflow.I have a fully battened main & do not find it a problem hoisting & have never needed to ease out the lazyjack lines.You just have to watch that the batten end does not foul the first lLazyjack line as you haul up.Most manufacturers bags work OK .One of the things I specified(Hyde do this as standard now I understand) is a stainless clip at the end of each lazyjack line so it can be unclipped easilly from the bag.My lazyjacks on an earlier boat were tied to the bag.I also had a small pockets sewed inside the bag to store the excess lazyjack lines.For me it works well.
 
I've used various lazy jack systems but I eventually abandon them as more trouble than they're worth. The best system I had was the one in the sketch below but with the vertical pieces going around the boom and back up rather than terminating at the boom. I could pull the whole contraption forward towards the mast so my standard main cover fitted alright.
I used 6mm soft braided line.

Lazyjacks.jpg


The sketch is by Bruce Bingham from my friend Dan Spurr's book 'Upgrading the Cruising Sailboat'.
 
If you amended to how I put lines under, lines over spreaders - you have adjustable so that you can suit conditions and sail. Plus you reduce number holes made in spars to fit cleats etc. - which IMHO all go to weaken a spar.
 
As I said in the text, my lines ran under the boom not cleated at it.
I needed the lazy jacks to start higher than the spreaders or they weren't effective - probably due to a low aspect rig.
I really don't like lazy jacks.
 
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As I said in the text, my lines ran under the boom not cleated at it.
I needed the lazy jacks to start higher than the spreaders or they weren't effective - probably due to a low aspect rig.
I really don't like lazy jacks.

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Yep - sorry was more answering the diagram you posted than the text.
As to height needed for top of jacks - often IMHO that is because lines are too close together. Space them out on the spreaders so a reasonable gap then sail can drop more easily. Often the culprit is the battens fouling the main hypotenuse lines. make the drop into more of an open v and height is not then needed.
 
Invaluable when shorthanded.

Whether you pay a sailmaker or are inclined to play about with some string (and £400 buys an awful lot of string in a recession), they are a real boon, should be of really soft 5-6mm stuff and slackened a bit when sailing so as to not interfere with the sailshape.
 
Has anyone tried the dutch system? That is vertical lines through a few eyes in the mainsail, rigged to a line from mast top to boom end (a bit like the diagrams above, but with the lines actually through the sail).

We rafted up to a Dutch HR in the summer and were impressed by the beautifully flaked main. The owner said the sail was easy to raise, flaked itself automatically when the halyard was released, and the lines did not chafe the sail. He was full of praise for the system, but i've not seen it here at all.
 
I also had the zip up bag with lazy jacks fixed to the mast about 3/4 ways up.They constantly fouled the battens when hoisting the main.I removed them from the mast and ran them vertically to the topping lift and attached them with whipping line, at the bag end I used a length of shockcord on each lazyjack, its been working fine for the last five years though the shockcord will need replacing soon.
 
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