Lavac less smelly than Jabsco?

[jonrarit]

As for a sitting regulation for a simple pee, never do it myself nor would I wish to try to enforce it on guests ... how to control?

It's a no brainer for me.... I too insist on sitting...there's even a sign in the heads requesting the same. I ask all our guests to please sit (and explain why). My boat = My rules, likewise when I sail on other's boats I would consider it disrespectful to the skipper not to do ask he asks.

I've only hade one guest who didn't comply ........ despite being an experienced sailor & a good friend....he's never been invited back.....

JR

 

[jonrarit]

I also have an inline filter with a "urinal block" in it in the inlet pipe as well as a diverter valve for the final "freshwater" flush when leaving the boat ...... only smells now are nice lemon ones.....especially on the first flush

jr

 

[rogerthebodger]

As for a sitting regulation for a simple pee, never do it myself nor would I wish to try to enforce it on guests ... how to control?

My boat has steps in the transom aft of the pulpit with hand rails and a gate that closes off all at crutch high so all males pee over the back out of sight of any ladies on board.

Normally standing in the head when in harbour.

 

[NormanS]

Because with the Jabsco (and other double-sided pumps) the same cylinder volume is used for both inlet and outlet paths. The O-ring seal on the piston is pretty good, you don't get any visible brown material in the inlet side, but I don't think anyone would sensibly claim that it's bacteria-proof.

Once a small amount of bacteria is introduced to the inlet side, it grows and spreads in the seawater there (and back up the pipe) when the system is not being used. The first few pumps of each trip remove most of it, with accompanying burst of smell, and thereafter things should be sweet until the next time they're left to multiply undisturbed again. So part of my opening up the boat routine is to lean into the heads compartment and pump the toilet a few times, then close the door (the portlight is always open) and allow the smell to dissipate. Then nobody needs to smell it during actual use.

Things like freshwater flushing also work, because there's nothing for the bacteria to feed on and grow (and the water may well be chlorinated too). Pouring things into the bowl won't do anything for this source of smell, because it's upstream of there in the inlet system. Liveaboards using the toilet continuously shouldn't have a problem because the inlet pipe is never left stagnant for bacteria to multiply. Possibly extremely clean seawater doesn't provide enough food for it to really get going.

Some people say that this sulphur-producing bacteria in the inlet side arrives purely from seawater, and is nothing to do with the sewage outlet side of the toilet. Maybe that's true in exceptionally dirty water, but I would offer a couple of pieces of evidence against it:

- Vyv's experiment in which he sealed up samples of seawater, left them in good bacteria-growing conditions, then opened them later to see if they smelled (which they didn't).

- I've replaced the toilet pump and plumbing on both boats we bought. In both cases, there was no smell until shortly after the first time the toilet was used for solids. In one boat that was two or three months, in the other two years (because of a very cramped compartment that was not much fun to use!). Smell-free until the first time a thin film of shit was spread on the inlet pump walls, bacteria growth and smell in the inlet pipe a few weeks thereafter.

Pete

It might be worth squandering a few pennies on a new O ring for your pump. Mine doesn't suffer from your problem.

 

[Heckler]

Jabsco type pumps allow faecal matter to enter the inlet pipe and cause the bad smell in there. Lavas don't. Lavacs however only come in a very small bowl size and so they suit smaller chaps.

Tucking bits in comes to mind!
S

 

[BrianH]

My boat has steps in the transom aft of the pulpit with hand rails and a gate that closes off all at crutch high so all males pee over the back out of sight of any ladies on board.

Normally standing in the head when in harbour.

As I am usually single-handed I am very much aware of the apocryphal comment that drowned males recovered at sea often have their flies unzipped. Consequently I have a personal rule that I engage the AP and go below. With the lid and seat up I can lean forward with bent knees resting against the bowl, which is just at the right height to do so and I am thusly in a very stable position against even quite violent wave motion.

 

[dylanwinter]

As I am usually single-handed I am very much aware of the apocryphal comment that drowned males recovered at sea often have their flies unzipped. Consequently I have a personal rule that I engage the AP and go below. With the lid and seat up I can lean forward with bent knees resting against the bowl, which is just at the right height to do so and I am thusly in a very stable position against even quite violent wave motion.

under such circumstances I use the scoop bailer

no need to relinquish control , the whole operation can be conducted in the safety of your own cockpit

D

 

[rogerthebodger]

As I am usually single-handed I am very much aware of the apocryphal comment that drowned males recovered at sea often have their flies unzipped. Consequently I have a personal rule that I engage the AP and go below. With the lid and seat up I can lean forward with bent knees resting against the bowl, which is just at the right height to do so and I am thusly in a very stable position against even quite violent wave motion.

As long as the lid is held back so the it won't fall forward (ouch).

Reminds me of the story of Toulouse-Lautrec when the lid fell down when he was taking a pee.

My outside pee rail during building

One time I went to see a long term cruising boat that has a head fitted and plumed into the open cockpit. SWMBO did not like it too much.

 

[PCUK]

Haven't read the whole thread so my comment may be redundant. Owned previous for boat 27 years with two Jabscos, different models over the years but always Jabsco . Neither ever smelled. Perhaps you're all dirty buggers!

 

[prv]

It might be worth squandering a few pennies on a new O ring for your pump. Mine doesn't suffer from your problem.

I fitted a new pump when we bought the boat and it gets a service kit for christmas most years. It's in perfect working order, but if you think an O-ring sliding across a plastic surface will remove all bacteria previously deposited on that surface, you are sadly deluded.

If there isn't enough organic matter in your local seawater for bacteria to feed on and grow, then good for you. I bet you still wouldn't take the top off your pump and lick the inside of the barrel.

Pete

 

[NormanS]

I fitted a new pump when we bought the boat and it gets a service kit for christmas most years. It's in perfect working order, but if you think an O-ring sliding across a plastic surface will remove all bacteria previously deposited on that surface, you are sadly deluded.

If there isn't enough organic matter in your local seawater for bacteria to feed on and grow, then good for you. I bet you still wouldn't take the top off your pump and lick the inside of the barrel.

Pete

You're quite correct, I wouldn't, but I have no control over what you might do in the privacy of your own loo.

 

[Vanilla]

As a female I'm especially obsessed with my boat having non-smelly heads!!

99% of the time my Jabsco is sweet smelling. I always make sure the heads are pumped thro about 30 times to clear the waste pipe after use. About once every 2-3 years it smells on first flush if it's been left for weeks without use. But I'm convinced it ONLY happens when a bit of seaweed or dead fish or other organic matter has inadvertently entered the inlet pipe and decomposed. I'm absolutely sure the smell is nothing to do with human waste. Especially as I have observed bits of seaweed coming into the bowl on the 2-3 times there has been the characteristic sulphur smell

This might explain Vyv's negative results and failure to find smells developing after his experiment storing seawater in jars for various time periods. Without a bit of seaweed/fish etc contaminating the "fresh" seawater no smells develop.

 

[RichardS]

As a female I'm especially obsessed with my boat having non-smelly heads!!

99% of the time my Jabsco is sweet smelling. I always make sure the heads are pumped thro about 30 times to clear the waste pipe after use. About once every 2-3 years it smells on first flush if it's been left for weeks without use. But I'm convinced it ONLY happens when a bit of seaweed or dead fish or other organic matter has inadvertently entered the inlet pipe and decomposed. I'm absolutely sure the smell is nothing to do with human waste. Especially as I have observed bits of seaweed coming into the bowl on the 2-3 times there has been the characteristic sulphur smell

This might explain Vyv's negative results and failure to find smells developing after his experiment storing seawater in jars for various time periods. Without a bit of seaweed/fish etc contaminating the "fresh" seawater no smells develop.

I think you'll find that it's your 30 pumps each use which is preventing the bad-egg smell most of the time as that really is cleaning the inside of the pump walls pretty effectively. I'm sure that if you only pumped 10 times the smell would appear irrespective of the quality of the inlet water. My family seem to get tired of pumping very quickly and it's the above mentioned "toilet block" method which solves our problem. :encouragement:

Richard

 

[Vanilla]

I think you'll find that it's your 30 pumps each use which is preventing the bad-egg smell most of the time ......My family seem to get tired of pumping very quickly :encouragement:

Richard

You may be right Richard, but don't for one minute think I've got people who come aboard trained for the heroic 30 pump rule....Oh no.... this dragon-lady-owner has no shame about going into the heads after a lazy-pumper to finish the job properly !!!!

 

[NormanS]

I'll raise your 30 pumps. After having had a blocked outlet hose. (That's another long story) I discovered that the total length of the outlet hose is 6 metres! Jabsco recommend a minimum of 7 strokes of the pump per metre, so that's a minimum of 42 strokes. My wife says it's alright for me 'cos normally I can pee over the side.
Still, We don't have a smelly loo, so as Vanilla says, maybe all you people with smelly loos, simply aren't pumping enough.

 

[Plum]

it seems that way to me anyway

does that square with the experiences of others who have swung both ways on the bog front?

D

From my 16 years experience of Jabsco heads, without any smells at all even with basic pvc hoses, it appears from all the other postings that it is not the make of heads, it is how you use it that dictates the degree of smell.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[Rivers & creeks]

Colvic Watson. How does your faecal matter get into your inlet pipe? Is it because your in and out skin fittings are too close together? If it's happening in the pump / valve assembly, it needs some preventive maintenance.

It doesn't, I have an electric. On the manual Jabsco's it is on the walls of the pump housing and pump mechanism and the notoriously poor seals which handle both the in and the out.

 

[Chris_Robb]

As a female I'm especially obsessed with my boat having non-smelly heads!!

99% of the time my Jabsco is sweet smelling. I always make sure the heads are pumped thro about 30 times to clear the waste pipe after use. About once every 2-3 years it smells on first flush if it's been left for weeks without use. But I'm convinced it ONLY happens when a bit of seaweed or dead fish or other organic matter has inadvertently entered the inlet pipe and decomposed. I'm absolutely sure the smell is nothing to do with human waste. Especially as I have observed bits of seaweed coming into the bowl on the 2-3 times there has been the characteristic sulphur smell

This might explain Vyv's negative results and failure to find smells developing after his experiment storing seawater in jars for various time periods. Without a bit of seaweed/fish etc contaminating the "fresh" seawater no smells develop.

You are quite right about pumping through - its essential and probably the cause of many smells over a period of time and also the cause of blockages by calcate deposits. Cleanliness over all the surfaces on a daily basis are also important - wiped over with some loo disinfectant.

About twice a year we wipe down all the pipes (externally of course) that you can get to with loos disinfectant. Since we have been doing this, the background smell (slight) in the fore heads has gone totally.

The boat is 25 years old and proves you don't need smelly loos to become a manky old boat!

 

[Chris_Robb]

I'll raise your 30 pumps. After having had a blocked outlet hose. (That's another long story) I discovered that the total length of the outlet hose is 6 metres! Jabsco recommend a minimum of 7 strokes of the pump per metre, so that's a minimum of 42 strokes. My wife says it's alright for me 'cos normally I can pee over the side.
Still, We don't have a smelly loo, so as Vanilla says, maybe all you people with smelly loos, simply aren't pumping enough.

New Crew always complain about unnecessary pumping - and always short cut - so they go onto washing up duties for the day!

 

[l'escargot]

The smell comes from the stagnant inlet water and is there the same in a Lavac. The difference is that the Lavac pumps it away with the lid sealed so you don't get to smell it. By the time you lift the lid, the bowl is full of fresh sea water and the smelly sea water has gone out through the pump.