Latest 'stable door bolting' from MAIB

[alant]

But sunbleached would signify a certain bravura......

In terms of posing, yes probably.
When younger, my lads used to achieve that look with lemon juice.

 

[capnsensible]

In terms of posing, yes probably.
When younger, my lads used to achieve that look with lemon juice.

Lemon juice on their pubic hair????? Wowser.....:ambivalence:

 

[Resolution]

Lemon juice on their pubic hair????? Wowser.....:ambivalence:

That is definitely the worst thread drift yet.:disgust:

 

[capnsensible]

Some consider it a talent.

 

[Uricanejack]

After reading the report I thought of the old Abbot and Costello routine. Who’s on First.

Who if anyone had the con?

The reference to Volvo raises. Similar question

Which makes me wonder about how racing yachts are conned?

 

[[163233]]

Only one I can remember, was a young delivery skipper when their boat got rolled off La Rochelle sometime just before christmas some years ago, not sure if zero to hero, or why that should be a factor. There are lots of excellent young skippers out there, grey pubic hair is not a guarantee of competance.

There was a large Beneteau rolled in Biscay a while back with at least one fatality do you mean that one? The crew were very green, but the skipper in that instance certainly wasn't.

Looked it up, "Ocean Madam". The skipper cocked up there too, going out in grim weather and overestimating the boat.

 

[alant]

There was a large Beneteau rolled in Biscay a while back with at least one fatality do you mean that one? The crew were very green, but the skipper in that instance certainly wasn't.

Looked it up, "Ocean Madam". The skipper cocked up there too, going out in grim weather and overestimating the boat.

Young skipper, making a delivery. From memory, he turned back when expected conditions got bad & rolled in sight of shore.

 

[[163233]]

Young skipper, making a delivery. From memory, he turned back when expected conditions got bad & rolled in sight of shore.

This one fits perhaps?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...-not-going-to-die-its-not-the-right-time.html

"He was a highly competent skipper, with 50,000 nautical miles under his belt and five years' experience, including five transatlantic trips and two through the Bay of Biscay,"

 

[alant]

This one fits perhaps?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...-not-going-to-die-its-not-the-right-time.html

"He was a highly competent skipper, with 50,000 nautical miles under his belt and five years' experience, including five transatlantic trips and two through the Bay of Biscay,"

Looks familiar, sad story, is there a Maib report?

 

[RobF]

I was wondering whether JD was referring to the Siesta incident. Not exactly recent (incident was on June 2005) and we don't know much about the skipper except that they had a YM and made a poor decision, perhaps influenced by fatigue.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...hment_data/file/373796/Safety_Digest_3-05.pdf refers

 

[lpdsn]

The reference to Volvo raises. Similar question

Which makes me wonder about how racing yachts are conned?

The Volvo one was nothing to do with the conning. Simply an error in planning caused by lack of time to plan properly and a misunderstanding of the use vector chart plotters, which meant a big shallow patch in the middle of the Indian Ocean didn't show up at the zoom level they were using. They hit it at night and didn't see it beforehand. They should've cross-checked with paper charts and followed the planned route zoomed in, but apparently they didn't. Again lack of time to plan.

 

[lw395]

The Volvo one was nothing to do with the conning. Simply an error in planning caused by lack of time to plan properly and a misunderstanding of the use vector chart plotters, which meant a big shallow patch in the middle of the Indian Ocean didn't show up at the zoom level they were using. They hit it at night and didn't see it beforehand. They should've cross-checked with paper charts and followed the planned route zoomed in, but apparently they didn't. Again lack of time to plan.

Not really lack of time to plan, the race route was known how long befoe they set off?

 

[lpdsn]

Looks familiar, sad story, is there a Maib report?

I thought there was, but I don't seem to be able to find it. I remember reading about the details of this one at the time (can't remember where - I'd assumed MAIB) and thinking I would've just walked away because of the state of the boat before the voyage. But I'm not a commercial YM and don't depend upon it for a living.

As I remember it, the boat was newly built and virtually unequipped. She didn't have a name. For some reason I remember it being referred to as hull13, but I'll probably be corrected on that.

Obviously turning back once out there didn't help.

 

[lpdsn]

Not really lack of time to plan, the race route was known how long befoe they set off?

Ages. But the navigator was flown in quite late. I presume like you and me he doesn't do any planning for races he's not going to take part in.

 

[lw395]

Ages. But the navigator was flown in quite late. I presume like you and me he doesn't do any planning for races he's not going to take part in.

I would have expected the skipper to have had a butcher's at the charts and pilot books. Probably half the rest of the crew too?
Is part of the problem that people with coveted roles like navigator are too precious to discuss plans with the riff-raff? Shovell Syndrome?

 

[[163233]]

I thought there was, but I don't seem to be able to find it. I remember reading about the details of this one at the time (can't remember where - I'd assumed MAIB) and thinking I would've just walked away because of the state of the boat before the voyage. But I'm not a commercial YM and don't depend upon it for a living.

As I remember it, the boat was newly built and virtually unequipped. She didn't have a name. For some reason I remember it being referred to as hull13, but I'll probably be corrected on that.

Obviously turning back once out there didn't help.

There's a digest entry but I can't find a full report.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives....gov.uk/cms_resources/Safety Digest 2_2004.pdf

 

[lpdsn]

I would have expected the skipper to have had a butcher's at the charts and pilot books. Probably half the rest of the crew too?
Is part of the problem that people with coveted roles like navigator are too precious to discuss plans with the riff-raff? Shovell Syndrome?

I imagine they did but somehow overlooked it. I guess there' preconceptions that the ocean was deep and there wasn't a huge shallow patch in the middle was a factor. I don't imagine any of the crew were sitting around with spare time on their hands before the start. I wouldn't have expected there to be any deliberate keeping of the plan from the crew. Do you examine the navigator on his nav planning when you go racing? Or hold a seminar when you're the naviguesser?

 

[lpdsn]

There's a digest entry but I can't find a full report.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives....gov.uk/cms_resources/Safety Digest 2_2004.pdf

Thanks. I wonder if RKJ is doing the intro for the digest this year?

 

[lw395]

I imagine they did but somehow overlooked it. I guess there' preconceptions that the ocean was deep and there wasn't a huge shallow patch in the middle was a factor. I don't imagine any of the crew were sitting around with spare time on their hands before the start. I wouldn't have expected there to be any deliberate keeping of the plan from the crew. Do you examine the navigator on his nav planning when you go racing? Or hold a seminar when you're the naviguesser?

I normally expect the nav and skipper, plus anyone else with suitable experience, to discuss the weather and strategy.

In this case, have ages to prepare a better plan would not have helped, as the track the fleet took was 'off limits' due to piracy, until shortly before, the fleet encouraged to move West to avoid big weather. So any plans prepared well inadvance were obsoleted.
https://www.hydro-international.com...ing-aspects-of-the-volvo-ocean-race-stranding

The problem is using an amateur electronic chart sold as 'not to be used as sole means of navigation' instead of the paper chart where the topography is obvious, or a pro system with hazard avoidance.

 

[lpdsn]

I normally expect the nav and skipper, plus anyone else with suitable experience, to discuss the weather and strategy.

Me too.

In this case, have ages to prepare a better plan would not have helped, as the track the fleet took was 'off limits' due to piracy, until shortly before, the fleet encouraged to move West to avoid big weather. So any plans prepared well inadvance were obsoleted.
https://www.hydro-international.com...ing-aspects-of-the-volvo-ocean-race-stranding

I just used OpenCPN to have a look at the time of the grounding reports. These shoals are extensive and there are others. More time to plan would've allowed the navigator to check them out and be aware of them which would've allowed him to at least think again when he realised he was going to get closer than planned.

IMHO a key difference between race nav and cruising nav is the amount of time spent on areas you are unlikely to go to and usually end up not needing.

The problem is using an amateur electronic chart sold as 'not to be used as sole means of navigation' instead of the paper chart where the topography is obvious, or a pro system with hazard avoidance.

Yes.