Latest 'stable door bolting' from MAIB

JumbleDuck said:
Even if I wanted to play racer, I wouldn't do it with that bunch of chancers.
Click to expand...

Who *would* you do it with? If you want to race around the world the wrong way, in identical boats and you aren't a proven competitive race crew/skipper who can get a job doing it, what are the other options?

Taking all comers (including the relatively elderly & disabled) gives a load of people a chance they would never otherwise have had, but you end up with fairly weak crews.

Then people could say "Ahhh! In which case do it using white sail only and stay well offshore or have a core of paid quality crew" but then the punters aren't getting the full ocean racing experience.

I haven't checked but I bet this is safer than the IOM TT. Just let people get on with it, if that's their bag.
 
Mark-1 said:
Who *would* you do it with?
Click to expand...

Good question, and I have no answer because I have no interest in racing or in making long passages and so have never researched the matter. Warning signs about Clipper have been around these forums for years, though.

I haven't checked but I bet this is safer than the IOM TT. Just let people get on with it, if that's their bag.
Click to expand...

Up to a point. As with all commercial sailing ventures, it's right that the organisers are held to high standards. Almost by definition, Clipper's customers can't evaluate their safety management and other systems. Heck, we've got a YMI here who seems to have been completely taken in by them.
 
westhinder said:
I can agree with you, but if you accept this conclusion, the next question must be about the organisation that allows this kind of situation to happen, and lets the clients pay lost of money for the privilege. I asked this question before on here and was shot down by a number of people who would not allow anyone to doubt the Clipper business model and ethos. I think the question bears repeating.
Click to expand...

Apologies, I didn't see your reply earlier.

I believe Clipper are fundamentally trying to do something positive. I'd just made an assumption myself that they mixed and matched crews sufficiently well that they had people who had enough prior experience and subsequent Clipper training to do key roles and it wasn't just one paid skipper doing it all, so that was the shock for me.

I wouldn't want to see them stopped. Maybe the keep 10 miles away from land rule will help, but I suspect it won't be much good without explicit marks of the course and delineated exclusion zones. The organisers could've put in two or three virtual marks to avoid this becoming a race along a coast. You wonder if they thought the crews were sufficient well trained, but the way this incident happened and the evidence that it almost happened to several other boats showed otherwise
 
JumbleDuck said:
Even if I wanted to play racer, I wouldn't do it with that bunch of chancers. You really ought to read the MAIB report. It might shake your hitherto immovable faith.
Click to expand...

Of course I read the report. Ive read lots of reports. Written some. But Ive also visited a Challenge Yacht. I know one of their trainers, who, as has already been mentioned, is probably one of the best big boat skippers around. Ive talked to some who were on their Coxn course and seen them out there training in awful weather.

Now there are some people who are prepared to take some risks in life and some who arent. Once the race starts and the crews are off the leash, the excitement ratchets up. And its hardly 'playing racer' its a serious contest.

Some people are up for sailing Oceans, some arent. Doesnt matter. Thats why I reckon they put far more effort in than some on here give them credit for and sometimes sound like they are point scoring for the sake of it.

Anyway, hows that letter to the Company going?
 
Mark-1 said:
.

I haven't checked but I bet this is safer than the IOM TT. Just let people get on with it, if that's their bag.
Click to expand...
There cannot be many mainline sports events that are more dangerous than the IOM TT races. But despite the known and very real danger, it is an extremely popular event for both participants and spectators. Or maybe it is popular because of the danger?
Is there some similarity with the Clipper?
 
capnsensible said:
Of course I read the report. Ive read lots of reports. Written some. But Ive also visited a Challenge Yacht. I know one of their trainers, who, as has already been mentioned, is probably one of the best big boat skippers around.
Click to expand...

So what's he doing, working for a company with such sloppy procedures?

Anyway, hows that letter to the Company going?
Click to expand...

What, suggesting that they read the MAIB report? If they haven't already, I doubt a letter from me will prompt their curiosity.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Yes, but I won't here because both skippers died and people might think that by "led to" I meant "caused". Both cases were investigated by the MAIB.
Click to expand...

Well that doesn't really help your argument that they were due to the fact that they were both zero to hero skippers then does it?

I think I read a lot of the MAIB's output, especially on leisure sailing, and I am struggling to think of any recent examples involving fatalities where the skipper was a zero to hero.
 
flaming said:
Well that doesn't really help your argument that they were due to the fact that they were both zero to hero skippers then does it?
Click to expand...

If it did, the the assertion would still have 'Hitchens' Razor' to contend with.
 
Last edited:
Mark-1 said:
If it did, the the assertion would still have 'Hitchens's Razor' to contend with.
Click to expand...

Is that the one where you can't libel the dead?

Like Flaming I read the MAIB reports (in the hope they might prevent me making a similar mistake in the future) and I don't recognise what JD is referring to.

I'm sure as an academic JD will be able to provide references.
 
flaming said:
Well that doesn't really help your argument that they were due to the fact that they were both zero to hero skippers then does it?

I think I read a lot of the MAIB's output, especially on leisure sailing, and I am struggling to think of any recent examples involving fatalities where the skipper was a zero to hero.
Click to expand...

Only one I can remember, was a young delivery skipper when their boat got rolled off La Rochelle sometime just before christmas some years ago, not sure if zero to hero, or why that should be a factor. There are lots of excellent young skippers out there, grey pubic hair is not a guarantee of competance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top