Lancing Marine - Diesel Repower

[danielbroad]

Hello All,

I've been lurking for a while and i've seen several threads on repowering to diesel. As my 26ft petrol sportscruiser is practically bankrupting me in fuel costs this seems like a good idea.

I wondered if anyone in the Solent area who's been through this process could recommend an engineer to do the swap for me, Lancing didn't really want to recommend anyone specifically and i'm not overly impressed with the guys who currently do my Mercruiser Servicing.

I'm based in Shamrock Quay, so nearer there the better....

Thanks in advance,

Dan.

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[tico]

Hi Daniel & welcome to MoBoChat
OK down to basics....
Whats the boat, existing engines, drives etc& how big is your wallet??
4 yr benefit i re-engined my 26ft cruiser with 2 Lancing Marine FSDTI 140hp diesels last year and cant stop boring others with the details of the conversion. Suffice it to say that i'm really pleased with them.
Piccies of the installation are on Pete's 'fairline owners club' under Sunfury.
PM me for more details

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[danielbroad]

Ah, well thats where things get slightly confusing

My current boat is a 1991 Bayliner 2655 with a 5.0LX V8 and Alpha 1 drive, but we're thinking of a move up to something bigger (although we're happy with it in most respects but range and fuel cost)

I basically have 3 ways i'm investigating:

1. Keep the 2655 for the next season, repower with a 145hp diesel (need to investigate if this is enough power to get to 23knts). It absolutely flies with its current engine but i only cruise around 21/22.

2. Buy a petrol Sealine 30/305 cheap and repower with 2x145 hp diesels. There is neglected one in our marina thats been sitting on the hard standing for over a year that I could take on as a project.

3. Buy a diesel Sealine 30/305.

Thats why i was trying to get an idea of the installation cost - the dieselise kits from Lancing seem great value at 5.5k for the 140/145hp's. Although I do fine with maintenance jobs around the boat I don't really fancy trying a whole engine swap...

The economics versus benefits of all of this is somewhat confusing, a lot depends if we can sell our current boat i guess.

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[tico]

IMHO
single 145hp in a 26ft = not enuf power (in spite of what Martyn will say), the peak power requirement is as you are coming onto the 'hump' not for top speed.
I guess that it would struggle to get over the hump with a single 145 and hence estimated top whack would be around 12kts

2. 30/305 with twin 145s..... i guess that the above would still apply. dont forget that 2x drives = 2x drag of legs in water.

3. most likely option

The kits for dieselising ARE good value, but the engine isnt the end of it!! Theres engine mount mods, leg/Prop changes, changes to steering, fuel system changes, etc, etc all of which will add some 25%-50% on to the basic cost.
PM me for more details

dons Nomex suit

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[duncan]

hump for that hull is going to be nearer 8.5 knots than 12
ability of engine to get it over teh hump is going to be dependeant on power characeristics and props ie if you could get the engine to deliver 145hp at the hump then it would almost certainly get it over it ...........however I agree the basic premise that 170 would be more appropriate for day to day use

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[danielbroad]

Hmmm interesting stuff.

Re: Option 2 - The Sealine 305 came with twin 130hp diesels from the factory so i'm pretty sure twin 145's would be fine. However if there is a lot of work to do this the economics might not make sense, particularly at south coast engineer prices.

The 170 hp comment on the Bayliner is probably about right - i think some of the modern ones came with a 160 giving 25knts top speed. Although my older one is considerably lighter i believe. Problem with going to 150hp+ is the engine type changes from a lightweight 2.8 litre to some 6 or 7 litre beast....



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[ccscott49]

".8 litre turbo diesel, should give you more than 170 hp, some makes anyway.

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[martynwhiteley]

How did you guess Phil!

I've been so busy after my hol that I'm almost missing my opportunities!

My Birchwood must be a harder push than the Bayliner (prob. a foot wider as well as longer, and despite the Byron approved 'see-through' mouldings, somewhat heavier).

I dare say it's possible that the mercruiser D120 turns out nearly as much useable power as the 145 rated Ford, due to measurement quirks, so we'll assume that that allowing for the extra weight of the Ford, the power delivery would be the same.

If I get 20 kts, then there's every reason to believe that a 26ft Bayliner would see 22 kts with a D120.

It will certainly 'get over the hump', but you'd prob be cruising at more like 17/18 kts. However I think you would need to go 170 plus to get assured cruising at over 20 kts.

As I've said before, I'm convinced buying petrol cruisers dirt cheap and converting them to diesel oneself, is the most cost effective way forward. However I would tend to look towards a full engine/drive package, rather than patching up bits and pieces of new and used. As you say Phil, there's a lot more to it than just plonking an engine in, and I liken it to saving a pound a square yard on that new laminate floor. Once you've done all the hard work fitting it, you'll wish you had spent the extra on the better product.

Who wants a 15 year old boat, with 10 year old outdrive, 5 year old engine, 1 year old marinising kit etc. But a 15 year old boat with one year old drive, engine, instrument, controls etc. all from the same stable, with service history, perhaps still under warranty, - Now your talking - must be worth thousands more!

- So spend a little more upfront. The job will be easier, and add far more value.



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[tico]

As a matter of interest
How heavy is yr Birchwood and what is the min speed that it'll plane at.

Have to admit that a S305 with 2x 130's would be a bit sluggish IMHO

I suppose it also depends on whether it's on (fairly) smooth river or hefty swells on sea. Planing on one may be impossible on the other. My old Black Hawk would plane great on flat water, but give it a chop to look at and no way!

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[danielbroad]

The S305 had a 27 knot top speed with full fuel and water with the twin 130's in the MBM test back in 1987. The 2x200 Petrols drove it up to 33knots.

Lancing have said they think the Bayliner will be a marginal planing case with the 145 - so i think the economics of anything bigger rule out the swap - i'd be spending as much as the boat is worth.

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[miket]

Missing the point.

Unless you are going to do the conversion yourself don't.

All this hypothetical techy stuff is very interesting but if you don't intend keeping the boat for a considerable time, say 5 years, you will never recover the cost of the conversion.
I regret to say that a 1991 Bayliner is not going to have a huge value whether petrol or diesel.

Save yourself a lot of heartache and buy a diesel boat that fits the wallet and requirements.

If you insist, Ebbtide Marine at SQ are quite well thought of by a techy friend of mine, also at SQ.

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[martynwhiteley]

I've no actual figure for the weight of the Birchwood. I was told it was 4 tons when I bought it with twin petrols. I've a test copy that gave the dry weight of a single petrol engined one at 3 tons. I assume it's close to 3 1/2 tons with the usual gear and half fullish tanks etc.

To stay on the plane, it needs to be doing about 16 kts. It will plane a bit slower than that, perhaps 14 kts, but only in flat conditions when backing off from a faster speed.

At full whack, it holds on the plane without a problem, even in the usual short chop conditions on the Humber, but perhaps loses a couple of kts down to about 18.

When the conditions begin to get a bit lumpier, the short chop of the Humber means that I have to slow anyway as it soon starts to slam. The forward section of the Birchwood being designed far more with cabin space in mind that wave piercing!

It's not only a speed thing, the boat feels to handle much more like a sports boat with the single diesel, than it did with the twin petrols despite being slower. The kids love me doing full speed '180's' and '360's' in it now, since it banks round like a ski boat. With the twins it never felt quite as nimble.

One penalty is the dreaded low speed wander on the river. Never a problem with the twins, even when only running on one. However putting both tabs fully down helps enourmously.

I've not found low speed manouverability too much of a problem although I'ts not been very windy since the conversion was completed!



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[tico]

Re: Missing the point.

Fully agree!!!!
Only other reason is if you have Knackered petrols coz then boat is virtually worthless,

<hr width=100% size=1>Been there, done that, got the oily T shirt