Lancashire or North Wales?

[Jockster_T]

Another newbie question (thanks to everyone who gave help on the last one).

I am based just outside Stockport and am weighing up whether to go for one of the following options based on the pro's / con's I can see (I guess there are loads of others):

1. A marina in North Wales (Conwy, Deganwy, Port Dinorwic, Caernarfon, Pwllheli, Holyhead etc)
Pros - nice marina, secure, services, access to Menai + Angelsey, Cardigan bay etc
Cons - Price (I guess around £2500/per annum/30ft, which for me is a slight strech), distance from Stockport (2hrs dependant on traffic)

2. A marina in Lancashire
Pro's - cheaper (I guess around £1000/per annum/30ft), access (closer ~ 1hr)
Con's - Not as good sailing area, better to have bilge keel - I want fin/long (for stability reasons - is that valiid?)

3. A mooring in Norh Wales
Pro's - cheap
Con's - access, security (both physical and weather?)

Any + all opinions/info/advice welcomed

Cheers, Simon


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[hlb]

I live near Preston....But keep the boat in Plymouth... Tried Pw..Pwhe....Pwellh.. Sorry.. North Wales for a bit. Mind I'm looking at IOM, Close to Scotland West coast and Ireland.. It might be an option!!

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Haydn

 

[Storyline]

Hi - my views FWTW

I live in Liverpool and when I got our first boat 15 years ago we spent the first 10 years in Liverpool Marina - this was great as the boat was so handy to visit and there was an active yacht club which we enjoyed immensely.

Our sailing intially consisted of day sails and weekends away. Day sails in the river but the only places to go to from Liverpool are basically Anglesey and the straits and the IOM.

For many years these w/e cruises are were great but tiring - lots of battering in Irish Sea and a return to work on Monday exhausted but buzzing.

5 years ago we sudenly had this revelation that from leaving our house and setting sail from Liverpool in one hour we would be by the rock channel (end of the Wirral)or we could be in Conwy (by car).

We then moved the boat onto a mooring in Conwy and have never looked back. Our annual holiday to Scotland does not even take much longer as the IOM is in the way and Conwy-Gigha or L'pool/Gigha are both about 30hrs.

Weekend cruising is much more pleasant now we are 3-4 sailing hours away form loads of anchorages.

Sorry long post but in my experience if the boats new keep her as close as possible - later you will probably want to keep her where all the good memories are.

Paul

PS I love our mooring - a bit anti marinas these days

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[Benbow]

Completely agree with others. It is nice to live close to the boat, but if you have routine 6 or 8 hour slog to get to any decent sailing it defeats the object.

I lived on the wirral for a while and initially kept the boat literally yards from my door in the Dee estuary. However, moving it to the menai straits was the best decision I ever made; 80 mins drive vs 8 hrs sail to a perfect sailing spot where you could always do something almost regardless of wind and tide.

Many people who are members of North West Venturers SC (near Beaumaris) live in the Manchester area. And if you are interested I may have a drying mooring for sale in Beamaris bay within dighy rowing distance of NWVYC.

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[ridgy]

I also live in Stockport and completely agree with previous posters.

If you actually want to go sailing (sounds daft but you'd be surprised) then North Wales is the only option. Holyhead is the cheapest marina (2000 for 30') and has the best access. I pay 550 for a mooring with club house and launch service.

I had two years on a +/-3 Menai Strait mooring before I moved to Holyhead and apart from being cheap isn't that great.

I've previously looked at all the mooring alternatives in the Anglesey/Menai Straits area so PM me if you want more info.

Nick


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[Benbow]

Now marinas vs moorings is a different question. I kept a boat on a drying mooring in the menai straits for 8 years without problems, but it is a constant source of anxiety. At least once I found myself alone, moving the boat in a f8 to conwy marina because extreme weather was forecast.

Also ferrying stuff by dinghy or slogging through mud is a pain compared to wandering along a pontoon. However the cost differences are huge.

So you pays your money and takes your choice.

Strangely, my insurance co never seemed to mind where the boat was kept, I just assured them that the mooring was professionaly maintained.

also, I would say that Holyhead is significantly further to drive than the straits, and the sailing options are equivalent. Conwy is closer still, but rather tidally restricted.



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[LittleShip]

Blood and sand there are some Northerners on this site, well I never??

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I wish I'd been born rich instead of good looking ?

 

[ridgy]

I still have a mooring, but with the HSC club house and launch service it's nearly as good as a marina for 1/3 the price.

I agree that the extra distance is a pain but I still think the options are better when you get there, especially for Ireland etc.

> Also ferrying stuff by dinghy or slogging through mud is a pain...

That brings back memories!


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[SteveGorst]

Simon
I can't really give you the pros and cons of Lancashire v's North Wales as I don't know the facilities in Lancashire, but I can tell you about Conwy. We have had our boat moored on a swinging mooring in the river and laterly an a pontoon. One major advantage of Conwy is the use of the river launch that takes you out to your boat, no need for dragging dinghies through the mud, although you still can if you want to.

The river is sheltered from most wind directions, the almanac says it is susceptible from winds from the north but the swells that I have seen havent made it far up the river. We were actually fixing the radio on the boat when it blew up one afternoon last winter and we recorded gusts of 67mph with no serious discomfort. And the launch still managed to pick us up!!

As mentioned the access to the river is limited by the tides but you will get more sailing hours from a mooring compared to the marina. You will get at least 3hrs either side of high water and on a neap a lot longer. In fact on a neap our Etap 26 with the keel wound up drawing 0.9m can get in at low water.

A good site to have a look at for further information is the North Wales Cruising Club Website, click on the link below. I would say that though...

Hope this helps

Steve

ps on the site banner look out for my Etap saling up the river..

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.nwcc.info>North Wales Cruising Club</A><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by SteveGorst on 12/10/2004 12:04 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Benbow]

How do you get hold of the ferry ? The few times I have been there I have ended-up in the evening on an isolated pontoon and had to row ashore leaving my dinghy at the mercy of a million tourists.

it is certainly true that there is enough water much of the time, but 3hrs before HW and LW there is a fearsome tide running, such that you surely wouldn't want to be going against it?

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[SteveGorst]

Channel 37 call sign "cruising club launch". he operates friday and saturday till 12pm and sunday till 6pm. Monday is till 5pm I think but I've never used it on a monday. Thursdays are by arrangement with the launch operator whos contact details are on the website.

As for the strength of the tide my 10hp volvo has never had any problems pushing against it, even on a spring. I make 6 knots through the water. The strong bit is between the beacons and the perch but if you hug the edges of the river and look for the eddies you will make good progress. Follow the locals!!

Cheers
Steve

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.nwcc.info>North Wales Cruising Club</A>

 

[Benbow]

Thanks, useful to know.

I had an impeller fail as I was pushing the tide coming out of Conwy once, it got quite exciting for a while !

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[DaveW]

We sail out of Fleetwood Marina which is very restricted at best +/- 2Hrs HW.
Preston Marina would be far worse due to the slog down the river Ribble. Glasson Dock again is very restricted. Other options are Douglas boat yard on the Ribble and Lytham again on the Ribble. All subject to resticted access.

Day Sails from any of these are to all points except EAST, but with nowhere really interesting to go. Once you have been to Peel Island, near Barrow a couple of times you soon get fed up with it.
We went on a day sail last Sunday from Fleetwood to Sellafield, along the cumbria coast, 62.3 miles, which was reasonaby interesting as it was a different perspective on the mountain of the Lake District.

In my opinion, I would definately head for the North Wales coast - so much more variety.
Two weeks ago we had the boat in Caernarfon Marina - now that's a friendly place and sailed it back to Fleetwood, 75 miles. Great sailing, through the Swellies etc.

We plan to leave the boat there again for a few weeks during next spring.

Go for Wales - you'll not regret it. You can always move the boat after a few seasons - that's the grat thing about sailing.

Dave

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[Kawasaki]

High Jockster _T, To expand on Dave W and Seve Gorst's posts definately consider The Menai Straits area.I'm totaly biased however having lived in North Wales all my life! Although I once bought a dodgy Lifebot conversion on the Rufford canal motored the thing up the river Douglas into the Ribble and hence to Menai Bridge.I thought the area for boating was"interesting"but at the time I thought It was maybe a little restricted as a boaty playground, probably forumites from thereabouts will tell me different! I've kept a boat' albeit motor boat on the Straits for Too long to remember but never get tired or bored or satisfied I understand The Place 100%. Thats the beauty of the area.Conwy Holyhead Deganwy Caernarfon and Y Feliheli (Dinorwic Marina) realy! All good Marinas, or consider a swinging mooring at Menai itself . Challenging sailing apparently, can't comment cos i can't sail going to learn when the weather gets warm! More totaly biased opinion Dinorwic Marina is the best Marina in the UK Why? cos I just opened a Cafe in The Marina this year! Oh sh***t is that advertising on the Forum? Oops.Seriously' if we can be on the Forum take a look at North Wales even That Portmadoc and Pwllheli Type places There's a "Regular" who posts a lot who seems to know what He's on about from that cruising ground. We'l keep a welcome in the hillside We,L keep a welcome in the Blah Blah etc Good searching Kawasaki.

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[colvic987]

make sure there are vacancies for the marina / mooring , as most of these places which have been mentioned have huge waiting lists for mooring places, the sort after places are like gold dust to get hold of, whilst other places dry out etc, and may have very limited sailing times. i have moved recently from a drying mooring (1.5/2 hrs sailing either side of hw), and quite restrictive, all bilge keelers, to a place i can sail as soon as i can get on boat, (if weather is ok to get on from dinghy)..the worst scenario for you is to get your boat and not be able to get a decent mooring for it or the only moorings available are for bilge keelers, maybe try and get a boat with an existing mooring.

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[Avocet]

We have, over the years, kept Avocet in Conwy, Port Dinorwic, a swinging mooring at Beaumaris, Fleetwood and Whitehaven.

I can thoroughly recommend Port Dinorwic. When we lived in Manchester we used to go there a lot. Very sheltered but you get leaves all over your boat in autumn and they block the cockpit drains! Also a bit restricted on tidal window (like much of the North West). I agree with what everyone else says, there's always somewhere you can sail round Anglesey that is a weather shore.

I also found Fleetwood very friendly and cheap. Don't know if it still is! but similarly tidebound. Although Piel island is the only real day trip from Fleetwood, and there's a long haul up the bouyed channel to the fairway, you can also go to Glasson dock on the river Lune. It's very pretty there. Finally Whitehaven. We live near there now so we're lucky in that respect. Its a gorgeous little harbour - very friendly and cheap, with much better tidal access (almost 24 hour on neaps with shoal draft and maybe 3 hours either side of HW for us). The only downside is that it is more exposed than the other places and there aren't that any short day sails.

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[Miker]

Fleetwood has a tidal access at the most HW -/+ 1 1/2 hours, often not much more than -/+ 1 hour at neaps. On suitable tides on the summer weekends, access is extended by about -/+ 1 hour by locking out and into the marina. It is about 2.5 miles up the channel to the fairway buoy, so if just sailing on the tide that is as far as one can get. In that time it is also possible to sail up the R Wyre to Skippool and back with local knowledge of the shallows. There are no drying out facilities at Fleetwood and boats have to be craned out. The nearest place that I know of for any major repairs is at Glasson Dock.
I agree that Fleetwood marina is a friendly place with helpful staff.
My main cruising is to Whitehaven and IOM because of the large tidal windows. Getting back to Fleetwood is often partly on the engine because of the need to catch the lock gate opening time and to avoid spending time tied up in the R Wyre where where are only two marina waiting buoys.

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[Jeremy_W]

I agree Paul. Unless you want to race, and Liverpool is VERY good for racing, I never saw the point of keeping a cruising boat in Liverpool in the summer. In the winter, when you won't want to sail for more than an hour or two, blowing away the cobwebs, it makes sense.

 

[ShipsWoofy]

I believe your comments regarding moorings a little unfounded.

Obviously it depends entirely upon location.

You missed Porthmadog as a beautiful and easy to access harbour, tidal restrictions but one of the prettiest in North Wales, IMHO.

You did not say what kind of boat you are trying to park, fin, bilge, lifting etc.

My moorings are extremely sheltered, I have been able to get to and from the boat in a F9-10, ok we got a little wet, but it was not a dangerous trip, there is always a lee shore in the harbour and we hug that in nasty weather in the tender.

I know for a fact kids swim or steal tenders to go over to the marina at Pwllheli. So you cannot suggest just because it is a marina with security that your baby is going to be safe. I would also point out in high winter storms, the boats on moorings often fair far better than those on the pontoons.

Boats have been known to get trapped under pontoons and sink, whereas on a mooring they will generally ride out strong winds and take them in their stride.

I choose to be on a mooring, I prefer the privacy in summer. Here is an example, I arrived too early to get onto my moorings this year. It was around 3am in the morning,. I slipped over to the marina to tie up and wait 30 minutes with a cup of coffee.

It was a mirror calm night and the silence around the marina was deafening. I was scared the whistle kettle would wake people up in a frenzy. I could not stand to be in this kind of proximity to my neighbours, I don't at home and would not want to where I choose to relax.

Just some thoughts....



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[Jockster_T]

To everyone who has replied thanks for all the very useful information it is and will be very useful. I think I will probably see you off a mooring in North Wales ....

Cheers, Simon

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