Kylerea to be obstructed by sub sea electric turbines!

[ffiill]

I just heard this on our local news yesterday.
One of the Energy concerns-I believe Siemens want to place two experimental sub sea turbines in Kylrea narrows between Glenelg and Skye just north of the Glenelg ferry.
Objections to Highlands Council buy 14th June please.
Why-because my experience of the tidal race than runs through here is that even at slack high or low water passage through in a small yacht is subject to the vagaries of numerous currents which tug the boat this way and that and to restrict the passage even further with large surface rafts attached to the sub sea turbines is just courting a serious accident.

 

[NormanS]

Kylerhea is a passage well used by commercial shipping, as well as yachts. It is highly unlikely that any generating proposals would be allowed, if they were seen to have any adverse affect on navigation.

 

[st599]

With the recent news that the winters cold spell caused a reverse on coal decommissioning which won't be possible by next winter, I reckon that inconvenience to yachts won't even be considered.

 

[Sgeir]

Kylerhea is a passage well used by commercial shipping, as well as yachts. It is highly unlikely that any generating proposals would be allowed, if they were seen to have any adverse affect on navigation.

I agree. I've had a look at the published plans which, in my view, need to be more detailed for members of the public to get an understanding of the project. While it would certainly constrict the channel, the reduced width would not be much less than that at the ferry area where the channel is most shallow and the currents run most strongly. On the face of it, I expect that it may contribute to extra turbulence, but I shouldn't think that the consequences will be unmanageable.

I expect that the RYA, RHYC and CCC will make representation of behalf of their members, as will the Fishermen's Federation and the other marine organisations. I think we need to know more about the plans and their possible impact on navigation. Any representations should be informed by full disclosure and discussion of the facts; in that context I doubt that a negative kneejerk response is likely to be taken seriously, imho.

 

[ffiill]

There was a public meeting where a large number of local objections were presented.
Its worth while remembering that in 1916 a Royal Navy Destroyer was wrecked in the narrows when its commanding officer tried to run against a spring tide.
My real issue is that despite living in the area this is the first I have heard of this proposal;neither have quite a few west coast sailors and fishermen that I know.
Typically it appears to be something that has been dealt with at national level as with windfarms with the usual attempt to railroad it though at local level.
Invariably in the summer if one is going through at slack water its highly likely that you will meet boats coming the other way through the narrows and for those who dont know it the narrows are narrow!

 

[claymore]

Oh Joy!
Pass me the fenders!

 

[NormanS]

The narrowest part of the Narrows, at the Ferry, is approximately 2 cables wide. How much room do you need?

 

[bikedaft]

here is a chart of the proposed site;

http://www.seagenkylerhea.co.uk/images/content/large/projectarea.jpg

tbh I think will be fairly easy for us to miss, but reckon a ship may just take them all out one night?

 

[MASH]

Having looked that the plans how can anyone suggest these things will be an obstruction to shipping? There's masses of room for shipping to pass - what's the problem? A few well lit towers - how could it possibly affect yachts? At least it will work predictably and reliably unlike those hideous windmills that so desecrate poor Skye.

The almost fanatical obsession in this country for objecting first and asking questions later is probably why they have adopted the very rational policy of not going overboard with informing the frogs of plans to drain the swamp, especially as it seems to be a total non-issue.

Frankly the notion it could affect yachts is ludicrous.

 

[ffiill]

My experience on going through the narrows is a sense of lack of control-once whilst heading for the light house from Glenelg Bay under power at low water whilst keeping clear of a large southbound vessel I found myself about to ground on the shingle spit on the Skye side of the narrows.
As for my view of such developments there are a lot a worms turning up here in the Highlands.
We have seen the A82 and A887 to Skye smashed to bits by contractors vehicles building dams;windfarms and supergrids never mind the complete destruction of ancient monuments(corriarrack pass et al).Everywhere you look the views and peace are spoiled by windfarms yet we suffer power cuts because of poor maintainence of the infrastructure whilst Scottish and Southerns shareholders rake the tax payers money into their pockets.
If you climb to the top of Ben Macdui in the Cairngorm National Park you see windfarms;if you travel to the west coast you see windfarms;Caithness-windfarms.
Take the classic photo of the Canal Locks at Fort Augustus and you have turbines in the background.

 

[pagoda]

here is a chart of the proposed site;

http://www.seagenkylerhea.co.uk/images/content/large/projectarea.jpg

tbh I think will be fairly easy for us to miss, but reckon a ship may just take them all out one night?

If you're going North that's where the tide will take you, sort of west of centre line. The bouyage & lights are going to have to be changed carefully to avoid nasty mistakes at night...
I wonder if they have in mind some kind of TSS ?? Small craft could go up the West side? / >North ?
As long as the local shipping reads NM regularly it shouldn't be too much of an issue, but it might get a little tricky if you were sailing up the side of this lot and met a ship going the wrong (tide) way. They do occasionally.

I think we're going to have to get used to this sort of thing in some places. though not in Cuan narrows please!!!

 

[claymore]

The narrowest part of the Narrows, at the Ferry, is approximately 2 cables wide. How much room do you need?

About 12 feet if there is just me. However, given the way the tide runs, the gubbins that will naturally come with the proposed development, the ferry, other boats and possibly another factor or 2, a couble of cables soon gets used uo, dont you think?

 

[Sgeir]

I do not seek the despoliation of our most beautiful areas, but it seems to me that in Post 10, the OP appears to be suggesting that other people in Scotland have to live near hydro dams and coal, gas and nuclear stations, but not, of course, the OP who lives in a post industrial paradise where energy appears out of nowhere.

I am neither pro nor anti this project, but share an interest in navigation rights as well as the comforts that electricity brings. I just think that we need more information and that an informed opinion should be based upon facts and not NIMBYism.

 

[MASH]

If there was a sensible energy policy (Ha! as if!) there would only need to be 2 or 3 nuclear stations in the whole of Scotland which are no more unpleasant to look at than a big factory - in exchange you could remove every single windmill that's blighting the most remote and beautiful scenery over the entire country.

So, so simple. So so obvious. Such a vast improvement. And no more power cuts when the wind stops. Complete no-brainer.

 

[pagoda]

If there was a sensible energy policy (Ha! as if!) there would only need to be 2 or 3 nuclear stations in the whole of Scotland which are no more unpleasant to look at than a big factory - in exchange you could remove every single windmill that's blighting the most remote and beautiful scenery over the entire country.

So, so simple. So so obvious. Such a vast improvement. And no more power cuts when the wind stops. Complete no-brainer.

And SO unlikely with wee Eck's dislike of anything nuclear, I think most unfortunately. We have the most interesting discussions on the topic when sons are visiting
I have worked in the oil & gas business almost all my working life, and son No2 has a 1st class Masters in mech eng, and has just finished a further MSc in Renewables engineering. He's seriously keen on wave/tidal devices. He just came back from Oban recently - salivating about the power available at Corryvrekan. Less interested in wind power. So we often get talking about areas with strong tides. Son No1 is a sailor - so more on my side..
Oil & gas are not so much running out, but the rate and scale of new discoveries is slowing, while consumption continues unabated so I think tidal devices are probably going to be the sensible option. Less of an eyesore than the wind turbines, but we'll have to encourage devices with enough clearance to allow small craft to go over them.
On the way out to the rig I'm on (19NM east of Flamborough Head), we fly over a massive wind farm. 8 x 11 turbines. Quite a lump of sea to be out of bounds. I've no huge objection to tidal turbines - provided they don't interfere with small craft (yacht) navigation, since they are always going to be looking for the places we use as conveyor belts to get around the west coast.
It's not clear whether this development at KyleRhea is on surface or below? Or out of bounds on principle??

Graeme

 

[Quandary]

I only go through Kyle Rhea perhaps 2 or 3 times a year and always in summer, in 30 years of cruising I have yet to make that passage after dark; I suspect few yachties use it much more often. I have only gone through against the tide twice in all that time. So it is not going to be a massive inconvenience and all the rest of the times the turbines will be working to my benefit as an electricity consumer so I can not envisage a valid reason why I should object to it.

 

[Blue_mischief]

Pictures of proposed tidal array at Kylerhea from Marine Current Turbines Non-Technical Summary.



Apparently 3 metres between top of rotors and sea surface at LAT.
The report also states in para 2.11 that "Additional measures have been proposed to reduce the risk of collision including a navigation management system that would seek to limit passages to single transits at a time." Deep joy at the prospect of hanging around in either entrance with the tide flowing.
No mention of mitigation measures to control pollution etc when the collisions occur. As they will.

 

[Seatrout]

Whilst IMO the pursuit of 100% renewable energy in Scotland by 2020 is balderdash, and the seemingly untethered erection of land and sea based wind generators is destroying our beautiful vistas, there must be a strong argument for sub sea generators.

Yes, we have lots of wind, but as sailors, we all know how damned unpredictable that resource can be. Tides, on the other hand are very predictable and can assure power for 23 hours out of 24. It may create minor navigational issues for us, but isn't that a fair premium to pay to get rid of these monstrous spinning erections on almost every hillside?

 

[claymore]

Clearly they are an effective and constant means of generating power, as is demonstrated in Strangford Narrows - perhaps its me but that particular section of water often feels more like white water rafting than anything else and as another poster has already written, the joy of queuing up to do some form of single file formation in that current is not exactly a prospect to relish

 

[Quandary]

Going south at the start of the tide in June or July you might get 4 boats in the first half hour; you might meet a straggler coming North against the tide but probably motoring close to the shore, less thereafter. Coming North boats will have started from such a variety of places that you are rarely in sight of more than two in the Sound. When the weather is strong from the South very few even try it because it is so hard to make progress once the Sound of Sleat opens up. Very few yachts go through after dark. This info is based on a number of summer transits, including 8 consecutive days 'stormbound' at Kyleakin in July 2010 looking out constantly for passing craft, we attempted break for freedom after about 5 days when we made it through the Kyle easily enough but got such a slamming from wind over tide in the Sound that we crept back with our tail between our legs. The tide in Kyle Rhea flattens the sea so provided you allow for its help when tacking it is easy to make progress but once past Glenelg it can be horrible, nearly as bad as leaving Strangord Lough in an Easterly but the discomfort is much more prolonged.
The chances of ever having to queue to go through Kyle Rhea is negligible and even the occasional ships that use it normally go with the tide, no one complains about Pladda Lighthouse blocking the Sound of Luing and WHYW race 100 boats through there, but then the rock it sits on has been there for a while and the rock at the bend in Cuan Sound is much more of an obstruction than these turbines will be.
They will be there working all year round while we leisure sailors are warming our knees in front of the fire with the electric light to read by.