KVH G6 Sat Problem

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mikesyam

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Hi All
Got a problem which Hopefully someone can help with, got a KVH G6 Hst Sat Dome fitted feeding a Sky box with a genuine card, around a couple of months ago it started loosing the signal on some channels with "no signal being received" showing on the tv along with the Sat dome whirring its head off trying to find a signal, should add thats with the boat tied up not while moving, have done 3 master resets on the Sky box as well but its just the same.
Heres the odd bit realised the only channels which I loose are the free ones like all ITV and all the BBC channels every Sky channel which I subscribe to works fine,
so this is what happens,
Watching Sky1 and flick down to Channel 5, after approx 10 secs you loose the pic and get no signal being received along with the Dome whirring away searching, you can leave it for hours and still no channel 5 yet if you flick back to Sky1 within 10 secs the pics back perfect, basically pick any ITV/BBCChannel 5 prog including ITV +1 ITV2/3 you loose the signal after 10 secs, flick back to Sky and its perfect.
Hope that explains ok and thanks for all advice. Mike
 
First question
Where are you?
If you are in the Med or out of the UK's main satellite footprint, I think I know what your problem is.

see my last post on this thread http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3693320

Here are a few facts – in no particular order.

KVH TV satellite systems seem to require a TV receiver (Sky Box in your case) to output the Hi/Low band signal in order for the dome to lock onto the satellite - Astra 2 position in your case (27 degrees east).

There is a lot going on at the moment.
Earlier this year, Astra 2D ran out of fuel so they replaced it temporally with the next Astra satellite to be launched. This was in fact Astra 1N which was originally destined for the Astra 1 slot – 19 degrees east (used mainly for German TV). At the beginning of September, the replacement was successfully launched (Astra 2F). Over the last couple of months it has been doing tests at 45 degrees east and as far as we know all is going well – well for them that is.

The big problem for us outside the transmission footprint is that more advanced technology has meant that they now have the ability to “crispen up” the focus of the edges of the beams. I personally believe that it will become increasingly more difficult to receive UK satellite TV outside of the UK.

Over the last couple of years, we have been enjoying the BBC red button channels which have been transmitted over the wide beam signals which “light up” the whole of Europe. On the 1st Nov 2012, the BBC shut down all their transmissions on transponder 13 on freq 11954Ghz. This meant that all the BBC red button channels and the BBC Radio Channels have gone from the big wide beam transmissions. I believe that most of Sky is continuing to operate on the wide beams.

The whole subject is very complex. For example the Sky box gets all its EPG data from a “default transponder”. This “default transponder” tells the Sky box which transponder and how to decode all the relevant channels. Sky transmit this data on 4 different transponders but the software is such that if the Sky box were to pick up it’s UK default transponder, it will reset itself automatically back to this frequency. I’m currently using 12207Ghz which happens to be the same transponder where Sky News is transmitted but every now and then, my “default transponder” gets reset back to the UK one!!

Now to your problem.
When you switch from a Sky channel to BBC 1 (for example), your Sky box sends a signal to the KVH system to use the low band (10GHz) rather than the high band (11/12GHz). The stupid (IMO) KVH system needs this signal to track the satellites. It seems to me that when the Sky box switched to low band (BBC) the KVH cannot then receive a signal to lock onto so off it goes searching.
On my system (Raymarine/Intellian), I override this by telling my satellite dome to continue tracking using the high band which we can receive throughout Europe.
I don’t know how you can fix the problem but everything very dependant upon where you are based.

So where are you?
 
I had this problem on a customers boat that had been left unused for quite some time.

The system would not reset the dome just kept jogling for a satellite . I got Mes ltd from Poole to sort it out. It needed there software upgrade to the unit so it would find first itself then the correct satellite to run from. Just inputting the lat/ long pos was not enough. Also the Astra Satellites had changed or one had been removed. Anyway an hour later all was well, we were sat watching Jeremy Kyle in true style and comfort.
 
I had this at home. Along the lines hurricane says different channels on different bands. Sky sent me a new box which then ( out of warranty ) was £60 I think

The low band ( don't know the technical name) had gone and a new box fixed it.

Good luck
 
mikesyam said:
Many Thanks for the replys, Im in the UK Newcastle On Tyne
Click to expand...

OK so you are inside the low band reception area.
Still - a number of things that could be causing the problem.

Could be the same problem that jrudge had - duff Sky box - not outputting the low band signal to the KVH kit.

But I suspect that it's more likely that the KVH kit was set to track a low band transponder that isn't now being used. Each band (low and high) need 2 settings - one set for a horizontally polarised transponder frequency the other for a vertically polarised one. So maybe upgrading the software (the KVH data) as volvopaul says would put the correct transponder frequencies for the low band channels.

Give your favourite KVH dealer a call.
AFAIK you can't set the transponder frequencies yourself with the KVH kit - I think you have to connect a PC to it. I didn't take much notice how it was done on my friends system but I think the engineer was only using telnet to connect but you will need to know the commands he was executing. Maybe ask KVH how you can set it up yourself. It would be a prety poor show if you can't set it up yourself.

As I said in the post (link above), I am horrified that such a large and respected supplier like KVH has such a poor system. My Raymarine/Intellian kit allows the user to enter all the required data using just the standard control unit. four settings for each satellite (1 x horizontal low - 1 x vertical low - 1 x horizontal high and 1 x vertical high) and then "bobs your uncle" - no need for a Sky box for the system to then track a satellite. OK, you need to work out the frequencies for each one but once you have got your head round the data on www.lyngsat.com it's fairly straight forward.

Please let us know how you get on - if yours needs the KVH database updating, I'm sure others will as well.
 
Last edited:
This may be way out whack but apologies if so......

My parents are static in Bulgaria with a 1.2metre dish which has been receviing Sky (astra 1D?) for the last few years. This has recently gone off and they have asked their local guys to re-align (at cost the dish) etc but nobody seems prepared to do it as the general opinion seems to be that Sky have made the footprint 'smaller' so that the reception is more sketchy. M folks used to be able to access all chanells (via one of my multi-room cards!) from \96.30am until 7pm) everyday without fail but since this 'change' then they are struggling for more than 2hours a day. The only answer seems to a much bigger dish (2.4m has been recommended) plus the base etc which isnt an issue but as long as it will work.....

Having installed a number of dishes in the UK and knowing how 'fragile' they can be we have always been nervous of 'self-aligning units' - but this could be the fact that we are not familiar with them...

TIA
 
Thanks for the reply Hurricane you must have spent a long time doing your reply and its really appreciated, its a complex response and going to take a few hours tonight to even attempt to digest and understand it, might I just add that for the 10 ish seconds after flicking down to say ITV or BBC the picture/sound is perfect until it goes, in my ignorance im just trying to reason that the signal must be transmitting and my dome/sky box must be pointing to the correct bit of the sky to get it in the first place so why does my dome try to look for it when its already there because Ive watched it for 10 secs.
Thanks Mike
 
mil1194 said:
This may be way out whack but apologies if so......

My parents are static in Bulgaria with a 1.2metre dish which has been receviing Sky (astra 1D?) for the last few years. This has recently gone off and they have asked their local guys to re-align (at cost the dish) etc but nobody seems prepared to do it as the general opinion seems to be that Sky have made the footprint 'smaller' so that the reception is more sketchy. M folks used to be able to access all chanells (via one of my multi-room cards!) from \96.30am until 7pm) everyday without fail but since this 'change' then they are struggling for more than 2hours a day. The only answer seems to a much bigger dish (2.4m has been recommended) plus the base etc which isnt an issue but as long as it will work.....

Having installed a number of dishes in the UK and knowing how 'fragile' they can be we have always been nervous of 'self-aligning units' - but this could be the fact that we are not familiar with them...

TIA
Click to expand...

As I say above the whole thing is rather complex - especially when attempting to pick up from outside the UK.
In fact, it isn't Sky that have changed anything - it's the Free to Air channels that we enjoy in the UK thats changed. Sky (on the whole) is still transmitting over the wide Eurobeams.

If you want to find out more, the best place to start is here http://www.satelliteforcaravans.co.uk/
A really interesting site where the author is a user and isn't too technical.
He explains the Free to Air situation here http://www.satelliteforcaravans.co.uk/platforms.htm
And he will be posting news about the commissioning of the new Astra 2F satellite here http://www.satelliteforcaravans.co.uk/newsat.htm
Everybody seems to be expecting it yo go live around Jan 2013

There is quite a lot of infor out on the internet - if interested search for Astra 1N
 
mikesyam said:
Thanks for the reply Hurricane you must have spent a long time doing your reply and its really appreciated, its a complex response and going to take a few hours tonight to even attempt to digest and understand it, might I just add that for the 10 ish seconds after flicking down to say ITV or BBC the picture/sound is perfect until it goes, in my ignorance im just trying to reason that the signal must be transmitting and my dome/sky box must be pointing to the correct bit of the sky to get it in the first place so why does my dome try to look for it when its already there because Ive watched it for 10 secs.
Thanks Mike
Click to expand...

Just a thought
You might be able to test that your Sky box is working properly.
On my system, I often switch the dish off once it is aligned and tracking.
It then performs just like a fixed dish at home and saves wear on the motors whilst we are in port.

So, you could try this.
Start your system up and tune to Sky so that it all works.
Then try removing the power to the KVH system.
Then flick down as before to BBC/ITV
If this works, (IMO) the Sky box is functioning properly and it is the KVH that is trying to track using low band transponder frequencies.
Also this would give you a temporary fix.

My friend who has similar kit to you in Spain brought a KVH engineer out to fix his similar problem.
My solution to the problem is to "fool" the dish system by telling it to track the satellite using the high band transponders (after all it is doing this when it is receiving Sky). So I suggested to the engineer that he should enter the high band transponder frequencies into the KVH database where the low band ones are stored - if you are understanding me. This would mean that the dish would keep pointing at the correct position in the sky.
However, the engineer said that the KVH kit doesnt work like that and even prooved to me that to be the case.

So, if you can set your KVH database up yourself I've had a quick look at Lyngsat and if you need some transponder frequencies for low band have a look at this page http://www.lyngsat.com/Astra-1N.html (remember that Astra 1N is the satellite currently transmitting BBC/ITV)

So, I would suggest the following

For Horizontal Polarisation I would try the BBC London transponder ( the London one in the Med is slightly stronger)
Transponder 45
Frequency of 10773
Decode data 22000-5/6

And for Vertical Polarisation I would try
Transponder 68
Frequency of 11126
Decode data 22000-5/6

I'm really no expert here but I chose TP 68 because it has a large difference in frequency from TP 45. This might be a good thing or a bad thing - I don't know. But I dont think there's a problem using any of the ones listed on the above Lyngsat page - just use the H freqs for horizontal polarisation and the V ones for vertical. You may need to ender the decode data - my system will track either just using the signal strenght, or by obtaining a decode from the digital transmission, or by actually checking that the decode is the correct network (Astra 2 network in this case - 0002). I'm not sure if this is necessary but the transport stream should be 07D4.

However, I suspect that you won't be able to change the KVH database yourself anyway.

Good luck
Mike
 
You can also download a simple app on to a phone, point it to the sky and it will tell you what satellite are there to point the dish at, if there nt there then it's never going to work.

I was in Spain last week, the owner said the satellite dish on his boat didn't work very well at all, I'm surprised at that as it should I'm told, maybe it just needs a set up with the latest settings.
 
volvopaul said:
maybe it just needs a set up with the latest settings.
Click to expand...

I wish that were the case
Its becoming increasingly more difficult to get good TV outside the UK

All systems in Europe should (technically speaking) be able to receive Sky TV and most of it's associated channels - at the moment that is but I wonder what will happen when Astra 2A and 2B finnaly go out of service - will we see tightly focussed beams like the current Astra 1N (soon to be replaced with Astra 2F)?

And most marine dealers haven't a clue what they are doing which leads to so many incorrect assumptions.

My system is working as well as it can.

I will post a more detailed thread when we know more about Astra 2F's footprint.
 
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