Kobra anchor

[Slow_boat]

I fell for all the anchor threads.

I figured that as we were off sailing for extended periods, maybe it was time to replace the CQR, which some threads seem to think is about as good as an old tyre full of cement, with an all singing, all dancing, 'new generation' jobbie. I read all the reviews, all the threads and settled on a 'Kobra' as a compromise between price and all round ability. I bought 'one size up' for my 33ft boat.

It looked the part, fitted well on the bow roller and worked every time for the first year.

Until about 6 weeks ago.

We anchored in a 'recognised' anchorage in a harbour. The bottom, confirmed by the harbour master, is sand and mud. The wind was force 4-5, occassionally gusting 7. The sea state was a short chop, less than .5 meter.The wind ensured that we didn't swing to the tide more than 90 degrees.

The hook, with a good length of chain, set and held perfectly.

When the time came to go, it recovered easily by hand. It wasn't till I got it on deck that I saw that the shaft was bent through some 80 degrees.

I contacted the chandlers who I bought it from stating that the anchor is not fit for purpose. They collected it and have sent it to the manufacturers for inspection and 'tests'

I'm now in Brittany with a 10kg Bruce, which won't take in weed or eel-grass, and my trusty old CQR. I'm considering buying a 'Brittany' as it was invented for round here and the locals all have them.

The moral seems to be that new does not mean better.

 

[Trop Cher]

Or you could say that the kobra held you in a force 7, and was therefore successful. Which would you rather have, a bent anchor or a boat on the rocks?

 

[dom]

I'm now in Brittany with a 10kg Bruce, which won't take in weed or eel-grass, and my trusty old CQR. I'm considering buying a 'Brittany' as it was invented for round here and the locals all have them.

An 80(!) degree bend in the shaft of an up-sized anchor after a F6/7 most certainly suggests that the equipment was unfit for purpose.

Re the Brittany option: I have used these anchors quite a bit and found them good in mud & sand (where they eventually stick hard but can be messy to set). The only caveat is that they are not trustworthy re-setters at the turn of the tide. PS I have a spare 20kg Brittany (might be a bit big) which you are more than welcome to play around with; PM if interested.

 

[Sybarite]

I fell for all the anchor threads.

I figured that as we were off sailing for extended periods, maybe it was time to replace the CQR, which some threads seem to think is about as good as an old tyre full of cement, with an all singing, all dancing, 'new generation' jobbie. I read all the reviews, all the threads and settled on a 'Kobra' as a compromise between price and all round ability. I bought 'one size up' for my 33ft boat.

It looked the part, fitted well on the bow roller and worked every time for the first year.

Until about 6 weeks ago.

We anchored in a 'recognised' anchorage in a harbour. The bottom, confirmed by the harbour master, is sand and mud. The wind was force 4-5, occassionally gusting 7. The sea state was a short chop, less than .5 meter.The wind ensured that we didn't swing to the tide more than 90 degrees.

The hook, with a good length of chain, set and held perfectly.

When the time came to go, it recovered easily by hand. It wasn't till I got it on deck that I saw that the shaft was bent through some 80 degrees.

I contacted the chandlers who I bought it from stating that the anchor is not fit for purpose. They collected it and have sent it to the manufacturers for inspection and 'tests'

I'm now in Brittany with a 10kg Bruce, which won't take in weed or eel-grass, and my trusty old CQR. I'm considering buying a 'Brittany' as it was invented for round here and the locals all have them.

The moral seems to be that new does not mean better.

Have a look at the Fob Rock. It has a similar look to the Kobra but on tests its holding power was the double. The magazine article stated that the Rocna was just as good as the Rock.

 

[jordanbasset]

Does not sound good. We had our Kobra 2 for 4 years, anchored pretty well full time for most of the summer months. Even got it caught in rocks when it was blowing a hoolie and never had a problem.
There is obviously a problem with yours and I think you are well within your rights to take it back, it should not have bent in a Force 7 in sand and mud, if that was the case ours would have been like a banana by now.

 

[vyv_cox]

I think Neeves has warned that the Kobra shank is somewhat on the slender side and may not be made from a heat treated steel. It is possible that some unhardened ones have slipped through but I suspect that for the price they sell at you always get them made from a straightforward unhardened steel. High tech doesn't come cheap and heat treatment costs money.

 

[Seajet]

Stick with the Bruce ( if it's a real one ) and you won't go far wrong at normal anchorages ! Maybe with a fisherman or something as backup for emergency in weedy rocky places.

 

[Ru88ell]

Having recently bought a Rocna I was surprised when eBay offered me a Rocna knock off. There must be so many spurious anchors out there, and I doubt very much that this knock off would have kept a straight shaft for long. I reported it to the importer, and he sent me a Rocna bottle opener as a reward.

 

[Slow_boat]

At 10kg the Bruce (genuine) seems a bit on the small side and it doesn't like weed or eel grass. I've got the 32lb CQR (genuine) back on now and am thinking in terms of a Delta. Or maybe a tyre full of cement!

 

[Seajet]

You could have a point, I use a 7.5kg Bruce on my Anderson 22 !

 

[Otter]

The Kobra sizing is very optimistic, we bought three sizes up because of it. It's held our 12 tonnes in plenty of places.

 

[Sgeir]

Sorry Slow_boat for such a tardy response, but we were probably about Tory Island and without access to the electric interweb at the time.

As you may have noticed, having regularly deployed one for the past few seasons, I was one of those who praised Kobra2 anchors in the forum. TBH, I think they are the bees' knees so I do hope that you will post the results of the manufacturers' tests.

Anyway, apologies if we may have influenced your decision if it turns out to have been a duff choice. My take on it is that the design is bloody good, and, is extremely effective at both setting first time and having great holding ability. Would be a great shame if it turns out that the quality control on the shank is not up to scratch.

Looking on the bright side, here are two positives - it held and you did not drag, and, secondly, the capital cost is significantly lower than other anchors that have similar holding characteristics.

PS: ours is a 16kg Kobra2 (33' boat, called a "34") and has given no overnight worries in F7/8 - we sleep well with it.

 

[Delfin]

I fell for all the anchor threads.

I figured that as we were off sailing for extended periods, maybe it was time to replace the CQR, which some threads seem to think is about as good as an old tyre full of cement, with an all singing, all dancing, 'new generation' jobbie. I read all the reviews, all the threads and settled on a 'Kobra' as a compromise between price and all round ability. I bought 'one size up' for my 33ft boat.

It looked the part, fitted well on the bow roller and worked every time for the first year.

Until about 6 weeks ago.

We anchored in a 'recognised' anchorage in a harbour. The bottom, confirmed by the harbour master, is sand and mud. The wind was force 4-5, occassionally gusting 7. The sea state was a short chop, less than .5 meter.The wind ensured that we didn't swing to the tide more than 90 degrees.

The hook, with a good length of chain, set and held perfectly.

When the time came to go, it recovered easily by hand. It wasn't till I got it on deck that I saw that the shaft was bent through some 80 degrees.

I contacted the chandlers who I bought it from stating that the anchor is not fit for purpose. They collected it and have sent it to the manufacturers for inspection and 'tests'

I'm now in Brittany with a 10kg Bruce, which won't take in weed or eel-grass, and my trusty old CQR. I'm considering buying a 'Brittany' as it was invented for round here and the locals all have them.

The moral seems to be that new does not mean better.

There is a new anchor design in the states - Mantus - that is essentially a Rocna, but cheaper. They, like the Kobra, use a mild steel shank. On another forum, a user singing the praises of the Mantus experienced the same bending you did with your Kobra. Having invested so much in cheerleading for this particular company, this moderator/poster praised the hook on the basis that it still held, even after predictably bending. To their credit, Mantus is offering a replacement shank made of higher tensile steel - their shank simply bolts on - so the product can be fixed. However, anyone who thinks mild steel shanks in the 1/2" thickness range for a typical 45# model will not bend are simply mistaken. The question is not if, but when, at least during normal usage. The Kobra performs well in all the tests I have seen, but your experience underscores that the materials the product is made of matters. For what it is worth, the Manson Supreme has a very high tensile shaft that is a whole lot stronger and springier than the mild steel of the Kobra, and performs as well.

 

[jordanbasset]

Interesting thread here about a bent anchor, this time a Spade
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?323984-Bent-anchor!

Tests about bending anchors here
http://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/-11024-1.html
'Certainly, setting and holding power are paramount in an anchor, and a sailor could use an anchor with a milder steel-shaft for a lifetime and never see it bend—as many makers, like Rocna, contend. Anchors from both Fortress and Spade bent in our recent tests, and these anchors have years of use to back them. However, as we will demonstrate in the May issue, bending an anchor shank made of so called “high-tensile” steel in real-world conditions is not as hard as one may think.'

I was surprised the Kobra bent, I remember getting our one stuck in rocks and foolishly trying to use brute force to pull it up, did not bend but I suppose it could have been the direction of pull. Anchored in lots of different places for 4 years, many times with very high winds, again no bending. Reading the above report it is clear anchors will bend, as this one did, but unless there is a sudden flurry of bent Kobra 2 anchors I would still probably go for it

 

[charles_reed]

At 10kg the Bruce (genuine) seems a bit on the small side and it doesn't like weed or eel grass. I've got the 32lb CQR (genuine) back on now and am thinking in terms of a Delta. Or maybe a tyre full of cement!

I'd stick with the CQR - it sets more slowly than the Delta, resets considerably better and, if you know how to anchor is at least as reliable as the "new-age" ones.
You're entirely at the mercy of the manufacturer using the correct grade of steel with fabricated anchors - all the concave ones have a built-in weakness in the stock/fluke attachment point.
I've CQR, Delta and Danforth -each is ideal for certain conditions, none are all-rounders, for any bottom.
The CQR is definitely not as good as the better concave anchors in soft mud or sand but better by far in shingle. I sat in Spinalonga for 4 nights, last week, gusting Bf7 and had a hard job digging out my CQR which had buried until only the tip of stock and chain could be seen. That's mud on top of blue clay.
Best of all you seem to be able to hold a boat on about 60% of the weight of those recommended by "new anchors".
Mine is 25 lbs for a theoretical 3 tonne boat which is 9.5 m long and tips the crane scale @ 4.5 tonnes.
Don't follow the Emperor with his new clothes.

 

[Storyline]

A completely useless reply but if form is any guide to function then the Kobra should be good as it looks pretty

 

[Poignard]

At 10kg the Bruce (genuine) seems a bit on the small side and it doesn't like weed or eel grass. I've got the 32lb CQR (genuine) back on now and am thinking in terms of a Delta. Or maybe a tyre full of cement!

Isn't a 32lb CQR a bit small for a 33' yacht with high freeboard, anyway?

I have a 35lb CQR on my Twister and don't consider that too big (although my back tells me different )

 

[noelex]

Having invested so much in cheerleading for this particular company, this moderator/poster praised the hook on the basis that it still held, even after predictably bending.

Delfin is referring to me. I am not sure why anchor threads seem to so often degenerate into personal attacks. Surely we can have a civilised conversation about what are only lumps of steel that sit on the bottom?

Good luck in getting the Kobra replaced. I hope Plastimo come to the party. Let us know how you get on it is always useful to know how companies back their product in real life.

 

[Delfin]

Delfin is referring to me. I am not sure why anchor threads seem to so often degenerate into personal attacks. Surely we can have a civilised conversation about what are only lumps of steel that sit on the bottom?

Good luck in getting the Kobra replaced. I hope Plastimo come to the party. Let us know how you get on it is always useful to know how companies back their product in real life.

I guess I am not sure how mentioning an anonymous poster on an anonymous boating thread is a personal attack, but ok.

I guess as long as you want to have yourself identified, the Mantus story is relevant to the OP's issue with the Kobra. There was a controversy on Cruisersforum on the wisdom of using mild steel for an anchor shank on the new Mantus. Mantus posted engineering calculations demonstrating why the use of this type of steel produced a shank just as strong as that of other manufacturers. The information was challenged as it appeared bogus, and Mantus said they would post backup data. That didn't happen, but Cruisersform was happy to accommodate and the initial posting was disappeared as a better solution to a correction. Subsequently, Mantus (again, to their credit) offered to replace their mild steel shanks with ones made of the same material Rocna now uses - 690 MPa steel - to anyone who wanted a replacement. This steel is less robust than that used on the Australian Excel or the Manson Supreme, but seems adequate as I haven't heard of any of the new Rocnas bending with the new steel.

Noelex received a free Mantus with the original mild steel shank as a friendly tester and bent it seven weeks later, which would seem to verify the concerns about shanks made of butter steel. http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/photos-of-anchors-setting-126073-23.html#post1582174.

I'm sure the replacement shank Noelex now has will perform well and his enduring enthusiasm and promotion for this new design fully warranted, but the point I was making had nothing to do with Noelex, but was that those anchors that are inexpensive and that to be inexpensive make their shanks out of thin mild steel in the MPa range of 400 or so have a reputation for bending in normal use. That is apparently what happened with the Kobra, it is what happened with Rocnas made of the same stuff and it is what happens with Noelex' Mantus. Doesn't mean they are bad designs, just that 'fit for purpose' seems to be a flexible definition in the eyes of some manufacturers. For a cheaper anchor, the Mantus looks to be a splendid option if it will fit on your bow, especially with the new shank material.

By the way, the thread referenced above of photos Noelex is putting together showing how different anchors set is a fascinating thread, a great contribution to understanding anchors and well is certainly well worth going through.

 

[KevO]

Oh b*gger.... I hate you guys!

I want to replace the manky old galvy 25lb CQR on my Hustler 30 and have been mulling it over fior a while now. Having read lots of reviews, articles and threads (and prices) I had finally decided on a Kobra 2 but was gonna up the size recommendation of 8kg and go for a 12 or poss a 14kg (a 16 is prob overkill ) I was pretty happy with that decision and was going to order one in the next few days when I got round to it.

Now I worry that the shanks are made of playdough... I say again... B*gger and I hate you guys!