Kevin Gaskell (CEO) leaves Fairline

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EME said:
Loads of other reasons in the accommodation ( potential for 3 doubles as opposed to 2) but the size of the Master Cabin ( as opposed to the position if you prefer midships) isn't a failing of the 50 vs the competition.
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If the forward master cabin of the Sq50 is the same size as the Targa 50, then it is impressively big for a forward cabin and doesn't lose much if anything to a midships master on a typical 50 footer. The only think the boss doesn't like is the step up to the bed which is typical of forward cabins; this is mainly because she trips over it when trying to find the loo at night in a drunken stupor! And yes you're right about the guest cabins although I would say having 4 singles is the bonus rather than having 2 doubles as it just makes organising berths for teenagers and boys weekends so much easier. Overall, I don't think that the forward master layout of the Sq50 is better or worse than a midships master; it's more a question of how well it's designed and on the Sq50, the forward master is indeed well designed. However, for example and not particularly having a go at Fairline but IMHO the Sq48 midships master is just too small and restricted and doesn't offer anything more than a forward master
 
EME said:
Your point was: -

My point was
a) It isn't a V-Berth
b) The difference is only that isis midships

In fact the Master is bigger than say the Princess 52 .. and Im surprised you wouldn't have been taken by the increased head room.

Loads of other reasons in the accommodation ( potential for 3 doubles as opposed to 2) but the size of the Master Cabin ( as opposed to the position if you prefer midships) isn't a failing of the 50 vs the competition.

I suspect you are mixing the 48 and 50 ( the 48 does have a forward V-Berth) .. but whoever said they are the same platform is wrong .. the 50 is much more voluminous with a wider beam etc than the 48

Longer as well if you discount bathing platforms

Your image proves I was wrong about the cleat. Different to the Targa 50.
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The P52 isn't Princess' finest hour in my humble opinion in terms of layout fine tuning but there is nothing wrong with the main cabin. Flat floor & ceiling, loads of head room.

It is a very brave, manufacturer who tries to sell a front V cabin (I use V in the context of the shape of the cabin rather than the configuration of the beds) over a full beam mid cabin. It's the killer feature which everyone aims for when buying that size range. If having the cabin forward gave me some other amazing benefit I could give it consideration, but it doesnt, in my humble opinion.

Henry :)
 
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Nautical said:
He he ! thanks but according to the post below we are gangsters ! maybe a course on how to become mafiosa would be better
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By "post below", are you by chance referring to my post #131?
If so, guilty conscience springs to mind: that's your conclusion, not mine.
 
"an averagely experienced buyer can pretty much tell at a 100 yards which hull belongs to which builder
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Might be true of the pedants on this forum but to the average lets buy a boat "man in the strasse" , the finer elements of hull design will be of little consequence ..........................and as for his wife giving a single toss about a deadrise ......:)
A far greater factor will probably be just about everything else but the hull in our entry level luxoboat .
 
According to today's Sunday Times, Fairline's sales were down again last year by 1/3rd to only £56.8m on which they lost £17m. On the face of it, this is a staggeringly awful performance although it's not clear whether this loss is down to trading losses or excessive financing charges or a bit of both. Either way it seems that Better have pumped £50m into the company by way of converting loans to shares which at least puts Fairline on a firmer financial footing and confirms Better's commitment to the company. Here's hoping that Fairline can pull themselves out of this
 
Deleted User, I'm going to stay out of the detail of this right now due to conflicts and constraints but it is worth pointing out that in this case it is worth understanding the accounts perhaps better that the ST journalist did. Actually the accounts need quite a skilled read IMHO. The reported loss is indeed £17m but if you allow for pure one offs ( I guess the mixed/platform line in Corby) and pro forma in the new financing that happened after the balance sheet date then things look better. That's not me making excuses- I'm merely saying that, as you know, it is pointless/absurd to look at 31/12/13 accounts here in October 2014, without taking account of new financing and a balance sheet restructure that has actually happened in summer 2014.

The new money in from investors in the cash sense was, as it read it, £6m not £50m. (The £50m required only a pen, not a pump :))

Please don't read anything extra into the above. I agree as a customer that I'd like to see new investment and model development. I expect they have some bumps in the road still to navigate. But I think all of us on here regardless of preferred builder ought to want there to be a strong "big3" as an absolute minimum in UK to keep up the competitive tension as regards spec and pricing
 
I had a slightly different take on the ST article (http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/business/article1469977.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2014_10_11) than Deleted User. Would I be right in thinking that if BC are the sole owners then the conversion of debt into shares is a wooden dollar exercise? And one of the by products of this is that the elimination of interest payments would improve profitability and therefore make the company more attractive to potential purchasers? So it doesn't really confirm BC's commitment to the company at all.

Any chance of is some oligarch or some other purchaser with deep pockets to buy the comp as a vanity purchase?
 
petem said:
?..therefore make the company more attractive to potential purchasers? So it doesn't really confirm BC's commitment to the company at all?
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Pete it would make zero difference to a potential purchasers. All rational purchasers look at a company above the line where payments to existing owners are concerned, with no exceptions. The £6m of real new money in during 2014 does show commitment and belief in the business plan.
 
jfm said:
Deleted User, I'm going to stay out of the detail of this right now due to conflicts and constraints but it is worth pointing out that in this case it is worth understanding the accounts perhaps better that the ST journalist did. Actually the accounts need quite a skilled read IMHO. The reported loss is indeed £17m but if you allow for pure one offs ( I guess the mixed/platform line in Corby) and pro forma in the new financing that happened after the balance sheet date then things look better. That's not me making excuses- I'm merely saying that, as you know, it is pointless/absurd to look at 31/12/13 accounts here in October 2014, without taking account of new financing and a balance sheet restructure that has actually happened in summer 2014.

The new money in from investors in the cash sense was, as it read it, £6m not £50m. (The £50m required only a pen, not a pump :))

Please don't read anything extra into the above. I agree as a customer that I'd like to see new investment and model development. I expect they have some bumps in the road still to navigate. But I think all of us on here regardless of preferred builder ought to want there to be a strong "big3" as an absolute minimum in UK to keep up the competitive tension as regards spec and pricing
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Thanks jfm, I do appreciate that it is impossible to interpret accounts without seeing their detail which is why I added a caveat about financing charges. I also did wonder whether there was an element of 'kitchen sinking' in the loss figure in terms of clearing the desk of all one off expenditures and miscellaneous cupboard skeletons. More worrying than the loss figure as far as I'm concerned is the apparent reduction in turnover although I do realise that turnover is also open to interpretation as timing of recognition of orders and sales can make a big difference. However, I think we can agree that Fairline are going through a difficult time and we should wish them well in finding a way through to better times
 
Deleted User said:
If the forward master cabin of the Sq50 is the same size as the Targa 50, then it is impressively big for a forward cabin and doesn't lose much if anything to a midships master on a typical 50 footer. The only think the boss doesn't like is the step up to the bed which is typical of forward cabins; this is mainly because she trips over it when trying to find the loo at night in a drunken stupor! And yes you're right about the guest cabins although I would say having 4 singles is the bonus rather than having 2 doubles as it just makes organising berths for teenagers and boys weekends so much easier. Overall, I don't think that the forward master layout of the Sq50 is better or worse than a midships master; it's more a question of how well it's designed and on the Sq50, the forward master is indeed well designed. However, for example and not particularly having a go at Fairline but IMHO the Sq48 midships master is just too small and restricted and doesn't offer anything more than a forward master
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Hi Mike - long time no hear :nonchalance:

When looking at SIBS boats this year our first port of call was Fairline of course.

We looked at the usual brochures, websites etc and loved the look at these new fangled mid ship owners cabins and said wow and couldn't wait to check them out.

We were massively disappointed on viewing our size range (c50ft) because of all the bloody steep steps. Also IMO the boats look too high v length and we figured that such cabins belong to longer boats whereby the steps don't need to be so steep.

We then looked at the new Princess 43 and thought it was like a scaled down SV2, yip the forward master cabin is perfect in many ways we thought.

In the end we couldn't justify the cost (I wanted the larger engines) and decided to return to another Phantom. For us she is hard to beat but sure, it depends on your priorities ;)
 
Deleted User said:
Hey SV good to hear from you. Excellent news on the P50 and I think you've made the right choice!
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Thanks Mike
Although the P50 is a lower spec it's the hull and power that appeals for our cruising area.
The upgrades will take care of the rest.

To correct the thread drift. The Phantom 50 was before Mr. Gaskell's time. Didn't I see a recent announcement somewhere that there is a new model lineup on the way ?
 
sonvida2 said:
Didn't I see a recent announcement somewhere that there is a new model lineup on the way ?
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Apparently so but I think it was the wrong idea to raise expectations in the market for a 'new model range' when it is impossible to revamp a whole model range in one go
 
At least they're addressing the problem but if it's the whole / most of the model range then it smacks of desperation IMO.

I posted here a few years ago about Sealine changing their complete model line up with more snazzy designs. I remember making the point that they are leaving their bread and butter clients behind (I was one) as they chased a different demographic.

After visiting SIBS for the first time in 6 years I had a similar feeling about Fairline :(
 
I knew Kevin from his motor industry days and he was a class act. No idea what's gone on here, but it doesn't sound great for the Fairline brand. Bit worrying as I own one! Let's hope the business gets a grip & moves forward.
 
sonvida2 said:
Hi Mike - long time no hear :nonchalance:

When looking at SIBS boats this year our first port of call was Fairline of course.

We looked at the usual brochures, websites etc and loved the look at these new fangled mid ship owners cabins and said wow and couldn't wait to check them out.

We were massively disappointed on viewing our size range (c50ft) because of all the bloody steep steps. Also IMO the boats look too high v length and we figured that such cabins belong to longer boats whereby the steps don't need to be so steep.

We then looked at the new Princess 43 and thought it was like a scaled down SV2, yip the forward master cabin is perfect in many ways we thought.

In the end we couldn't justify the cost (I wanted the larger engines) and decided to return to another Phantom. For us she is hard to beat but sure, it depends on your priorities ;)
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Hi Mick. Good to hear from you. I've been off these forums myself much of the past year. Good luck with the boat hunting. The search can be so much fun. Noel
 
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