Ketch rig

 
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Long time back in here we taught sailing on shaloupes (DZ) rigged as gaff ketch, moreover with boomless, overlapping main. And very small rudder, so no maneuver was possible by rudder only, sails were steering the boat. Exams for first sea certificate were made in them, for a reason. Very good shool.
I like them anyway, was racing them, few times even against modern centreboard racers, to general astonishment... Singlehanded included :cool: Nice memories.
http://foto.recenzja.pl/foty/regaty_szalup-108-f28284b13c468bdd7bed830a72dbe949.jpeg
 
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Yes - this is how I see it - I just do not have the range of options for maneuvering under sail with one mast. Having an aft sail allows so many more manoeuvres.


Rossynant said:
Long time back in here we taught sailing on shaloupes (DZ) rigged as gaff ketch, moreover with boomless, overlapping main. And very small rudder, so no maneuver was possible by rudder only, sails were steering the boat. Exams for first sea certificate were made in them, for a reason. Very good shool.
I like them anyway, was racing them, few times even against modern centreboard racers, to general astonishment... Singlehanded included :cool: Nice memories.
http://foto.recenzja.pl/foty/regaty_szalup-108-f28284b13c468bdd7bed830a72dbe949.jpeg
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> just reflecting that it is out of fashion

I wouldn't say it went out of fasion, ketches were were priced out when AWB's came long, designed to be agreeable to ladies with a big aft cabin - clever marketing and significantly increased sales.
 
KellysEye said:
> just reflecting that it is out of fashion

I wouldn't say it went out of fasion, ketches were were priced out when AWB's came long, designed to be agreeable to ladies with a big aft cabin - clever marketing and significantly increased sales.
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Not really the case - if anything a ketch is better with an aft cabin boat because it does not affect the cockpit so much.

They went out of fashion because their benefits were overtaken by developments in rig design and sail handling and larger boats were no longer the preserve of long distance (either real or imagined) sailors. Older hull shapes with long keels also benfitted from low spread out sail plans more than modern fin keels.

So the extra cost and complication plus the loss of deck or cockpit space overcame any benefits.
 
Rossynant said:
There are two very important reasons ketches went out of fashion. For one, perhaps most important - two masts put some twisting strains into hull; so whole hull must have strength, not just the small strip where fin and mast go screwed in... Bit of a problem for producers ;).
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That must be about the time that they started producing AWB'S :)
 
A Ketch has much more string to fiddle with.

The smaller sail areas make it much more manageable for shorthanded sailing.

This one is for sail.


kat8.jpg
 
mattlad said:
Just because something is out of fashion does not mean it isn't any good!
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Never suggested that it was not any good - just explaining perhaps why so few boat are built with the rig now. Part of that is because developments in other areas have reduced some of the possible advantages, particularly for coastal sailors.

Just because something was good in the past (or even now) does not mean that other things are not better.
 
If I want an easy time of it its rare that I put up my main when sailing my ketch single handed.With a good wind blowing it will quite happily make 6 plus knots.
 
geem said:
"the Amels have in mast reefing on both masts which must make sail handling easier"

Until it breaks!! I have a couple of pals with in-mast reefing that is nothing but troube. One has just striped it off his mast and replaced with slab reefing.
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I have never heard of an Amel dismasting.
 
prv said:
Those boats look great. Never seen anything like them before, but they look like a lot of fun.
Pete
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How come? Not even in the Baltic? Surprized I am, truly...
This is a naval cutter, 10 oars size - well, guess Royal Navy used a traditional dozen oars instead :) RN boat is just couple feet longer, otherwise the same, also was ketch rigged; http://www.bmpt.org.uk/pnbpt_historic_boats/32-Ft-Naval-Cutter/fig_03.jpg

Those here actually were rescue (or general purpose) deck boats of german navy, 10-oar class; "Marine kutter zweite Klasse" - in case someone should confuse "cutter" and "ketch" rigs ;) Originally lugger ketch rig. Purpose of rig was such so all spars could fit inside the boat. Simple, cheap, but able. Got very popular with scouts and such youth organisations, precisely for sail training.

Our "DZ" boats only differ in having gaff rig, also being a foot slimmer, just modifications for better sailing. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/Ketch_type_DZ.jpg/453px-Ketch_type_DZ.jpg

Germans still have such too, even in couple different design classes, for racing; like http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jugendwanderkutter
So quite a few people know, right from beginning, how to efficiently sail a ketch :cool:
 
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