Ketch rig

J

Jiggers

New Member
Joined
4 Apr 2013
Messages
2
Visit site
Hi I'm new to sailing and have previously owned motor boats an to be honest haven't got a clue about sailing!
I've purchased a Bruce Roberts M43 which I'm restoring. I'm planning to obviously learn to sail with someone before I raise the sails!!
My question is, how does the mizzen work? On the deck I have a track but no other gear ie winches etc, does the mizzen boom stay in one place and held centre to the yacht or does one adjust the position prt or stbd with the wind direction?
What deck equipment should I have with this type of rig?
Many thanks Andy
 
We had a ketch and it had two winches one each side of the mast one for the halyard and one for the sheet. Ketches are reaching machines and not great upwind because they have a lower main mast than the equivalent size sloop. However they give good flexibility in terms of sail plan. For example when the apparent wind increaed to 25 knots when reaching we dropped the main, put two reefs in the genoa and the boat was perfecly balanced. If you are coastal cruising I would buy a sloop, we bought a ketch for long distance cruising: you don't do much sail handling in trade winds but you do when coastal sailing with many course changes and a ketch is more complcated.
 
Jiggers said:
My question is, how does the mizzen work? On the deck I have a track but no other gear ie winches etc, does the mizzen boom stay in one place and held centre to the yacht or does one adjust the position prt or stbd with the wind direction?
Click to expand...

Clearly you weren't joking when you said you hadn't a clue about sailing :)

No, the boom doesn't stay in the middle of the boat. It needs to be able to swing (under control) from all the way out one side (as far as it will go without hitting the shrouds, the vertical metal wires) to all the way out the other. There should be either one or two ropes (called "sheets") to control it - if there's one it will go down to the centreline of the boat, if two then one goes to each side. If your track is for the mizzen sheet then it's probably just one, attached to a slider on the track.

There may not need to be any winches, it's quite likely to just use a tackle (a set of pulleys). Sounds like that may be missing?

Your best bet will be to post a photo so we can see what's what and suggest what you need to do.

Pete
 
Ketches are rather out of fashion now. They were popular in the past because they broke up the sail area into smaller bits and provided more flexibility of sail area and were easier to handle for small crews. However, developments in sails and sail handling have made sloops much easier to handle, and of course cheaper than two masts. In general windward performance is less good and all the extra gear means more work and more maintenance. On the other hand many handle well with reduced mainsail or just mizzen and jib. You trim the mizzen just as you trim other sails, but often downwind it blankets the main so is less effective. It may not need winches to handle the sheet, but could be useful to fit, depending on the sheeting arrangements. Hopefully the designer specified suitable equipment.

You may find you have to wait until you get afloat to figure out the best way of using the gear to get the best out of the boat.
 
KellysEye said:
We had a ketch and it had two winches one each side of the mast one for the halyard and one for the sheet. Ketches are reaching machines and not great upwind because they have a lower main mast than the equivalent size sloop. However they give good flexibility in terms of sail plan. For example when the apparent wind increaed to 25 knots when reaching we dropped the main, put two reefs in the genoa and the boat was perfecly balanced. If you are coastal cruising I would buy a sloop, we bought a ketch for long distance cruising: you don't do much sail handling in trade winds but you do when coastal sailing with many course changes and a ketch is more complcated.[/QUOTE

my ketch has the same size main mast as the sloop version. The only difference with the ketch is the boom on the main mast is shorter by about 2 feet. The slight loss of mainsail area is more than made up for in the mizzen sail area.
The ketch will not perform as well to windward due to windage from the mizzen, but not all boats are equal. our ketch is a wizard to windward. 2.2m draft and excellent underwater hull shape. Van de Stadt design helps
Click to expand...
 
LadyInBed said:
How dare you Sir! :)
Click to expand...

How very dare you indeed! Better looking than a bog-standard sloop. Life is simpler, just reef by dropping the main, not that we've had to yet because the lower mast heights mean you heel a lot less. Not so close to windward is as much a function of our keel shape and boat weight. More fun because the youngsters can handle the mizzen between themselves.

Edit: LadyInBed - assuming that isn't an off the shelf mizzen staysail, do you just use a very small cruising chute?
 
Last edited:
Can't think of any boat in production now with a ketch rig. Not a negative comment - just reflecting that it is out of fashion. The advantages it once had are now much reduced by other developments. Seems that today's buyers don't want a ruddy great mast plonked just where the drinks table should be and also hampering access to the bathing platform!
 
Tranona said:
Can't think of any boat in production now with a ketch rig.
Click to expand...

The Amels still are, aren't they? The boss is reputed to be rather opinionated, and gives you exactly what he considers right for that kind of cruising, no options. Guess he still considers ketch to be best.

Pete
 
Yes, you are right, both the 55 and 64. Expect there are also other custom and semi custom bluewater boats available with the rig. But nothing like 30 years ago when it was probably the most common rig for 40'+ and an option on many smaller boats.

BTW not the Amels have in mast reefing on both masts which must make sail handling easier.
 
prv said:
The Amels still are, aren't they? The boss is reputed to be rather opinionated, and gives you exactly what he considers right for that kind of cruising, no options. Guess he still considers ketch to be best.

Pete
Click to expand...

I am afraid Henri is no longer with us but the new owners of the name still make ketches. IMHO the best rig for a cruiser. Yes I do know I have a cutter BUT when there is a big squall coming I wish I still had a ketch.
 
"the Amels have in mast reefing on both masts which must make sail handling easier"

Until it breaks!! I have a couple of pals with in-mast reefing that is nothing but troube. One has just striped it off his mast and replaced with slab reefing.
 
Tranona said:
Can't think of any boat in production now with a ketch rig. Not a negative comment - just reflecting that it is out of fashion. The advantages it once had are now much reduced by other developments. Seems that today's buyers don't want a ruddy great mast plonked just where the drinks table should be and also hampering access to the bathing platform!
Click to expand...

Please sir, what is a bathing platform?
 
Essential bit of kit if you boat in areas where there is nice warm water to swim in and when you moor up you can just step off the stern into the taverna. Not so desirable if you boat where it is cold, wet and windy and you have to row ashore and walk up a muddy lane to get to the pub!
 
I don't think going sloopy is a fashion statement, just that the likes of BenJenBav can't justify the cost of building them.

OP, as already stated, the mizzen works just like a mini main & often requires lighter gear, mine just has a 4 part sheet attached at either side of teh aft cabin rather than a big butch mainsheet tackle on a transverse track.

And when trimming the mizzen, it usually pulls best when hauled slightly closer to midships than the main. Sew ribbons into the genoa about a foot aft of the leading edge & into the trailing edge of the main & mizzen. When all of these are streaming straight out, then your sails are trimmed as well as they can be.

You need to go sailing on a ketch a few times to get the feel of the thing. BTW, when running downwind you can goosewing mizzen & main on opposite sides & genny on same side as mizzen. Staysails between the masts are only really useful on long beam wind passages.
 
+ 1 :D
Sadly rerigging mizzen will have to wait (for southern weather :cool: )

There are two very important reasons ketches went out of fashion. For one, perhaps most important - two masts put some twisting strains into hull; so whole hull must have strength, not just the small strip where fin and mast go screwed in... Bit of a problem for producers ;).

Crew has to know how to sail, for another, not so good idea for charter boat; there is a bit of tinkering about. But then they are so much easier to handle, handy, so many things possible to do with them. Including setting more sail. Who says they're slow?
Fastest offshore boats, record holders, used to have two masts...
http://www.sail-world.com/photos_2012_3/Alt_464880_397081503692502_1216217142_o1.jpg
http://www.charterworld.com/images/framework/852/MARI-CHA IV - Image by LiveYachting.jpg
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top