Ketch or Sloop

[wishbone]

Hi getting ready to hunt for a boat at long last (almost retired young 52) question is I am looking at yachts from 39' to 42' long fin, maybe long keel single handed most of the time, waht dose the team think of rig type. size not a problem I am very strong!!! so Im'e told.

<hr width=100% size=1>Wishbone
Rolling, rolling, rolling keep them doggies moving!
Where’s me chuck wagon gone?

 

[john_morris_uk]

Why long keel? If you are going to spend lots of your time sailing offshore then the advantages of a boat that tracks well when you leave the helm are obvious, but many fin keelers track reasonably, and I can't (or at least I try not to) imagine sailing singlehanded without an autopilot.

The biggest problem with a long keeled boat is close quarters handling. Sometimes its not that you can't do it, its persuading other people on the water that the approach that you are making is forced upon you by your keel configuration. I got fed up with having to shout "I can't go backwards except for this way" at people who were only used to fin keeled boats with big engines whose boats go anywhere, who would assume I could just stop and turn around like they could.

I remember one Cowes week when a friend who is an accomplished sailor had watched me berth under sail my long keeled classic for most of the week (the prop had come loose and we didn't want to lose a days racing but thats another long story). On one of the last days, I asked him to berth it when I ran to sign off. The crew still tell the story of how white he went as he brought her up the Medina and alongside. With an engine she was a delight, but nowhere near as easy as many modern fin keeled yachts.

Of course you may never want to enter a marina berth at the height of summer in which case you pay your money and take your choice.

No problem with any rig at that size, so longs as you are sensible. Roller genoa, and a fully battened main, lazy jacks and a stacking system works well for us.

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[wishbone]

Thanks for the reply
I like the keel type of the Ohlson 38, I am looking at yachts in the US something with a good wood interior, sailed a sloop with lazy jacks made life easy singlehanded.

<hr width=100% size=1>Wishbone
Rolling, rolling, rolling keep them doggies moving!
Where’s me chuck wagon gone?

 

[oldsaltoz]

G'day Wishbone,

As a general rule the two stick versions are stiffer than sloops because the rig is of a lower aspect. However if you plan to sail short handed you will have more to look after, raise, lower, trim, maintain.

Look for roller reefing head sail and easy to handle main, a good auto pilot with remote if possible, lazy jacks or even better a stack pack, a well protected cockpit, good communications equipment on board and the list goes on.

Given the choice I run with a masthead rigged sloop and fixed keel, but this would depend on the areas and distances you plan to sail. Do you plan to live aboard? if so I would consider a 30 foot cat.


Timber fit out is a lot more maintenance and can be a bit on the dark side, but we all have our likes and dislikes.

Avagoodweekend.



<hr width=100% size=1> Old Salt Oz /forums/images/icons/cool.gif Growing old is unavoidable. However, growing up is still optional.

 

[wishbone]

Thank's mate!
I work with wood, I love a nice piece of solid wood, I use a lot of man made panels It's nice to fit solid wood on some of our job's. Im'e a sucker for maintenance....

<hr width=100% size=1>Wishbone
Rolling, rolling, rolling keep them doggies moving!
Where’s me chuck wagon gone?

 

[alanporter]

G'day Oldsaltoz
Forgive my ignorance, but what is a stack pack ? I have never heard the expression in over fifty years of sailing.


<hr width=100% size=1>Alan Porter

 

[john_morris_uk]

Stack-pack - slang(?) name for one of these sail stowing sytems that lives on the boom. Lazyjacks to either side and a zip to close over the main when it drops inside. Works best with a fully battened main.

Ref the Ohlsons. They are great boats and sail beautifully. I sailed a 38 for a time once. I wouldn't have described them as long keel though - more like a longish fin if I remember correctly.

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[wishbone]

Hi john
Yep the Ohlson has a long fin, the underwater profile is superb had a lot of feed back on these boats. I missed a good one last year that was for sale at southwest yachbrokers time just wasn't right, another one will come along someday.

<hr width=100% size=1>Wishbone
Rolling, rolling, rolling keep them doggies moving!
Where’s me chuck wagon gone?

 

[Mudplugger]

Sorry Old Salt,
got to disagree, had 15 years with Ketch Rig and found that it was ideal for S/H sailing, sails are smaller and more easily controlled, and rig has greater flexibility in heavy weather, Mizzen & Storm jib taking 45 knots o/deck on one instance, Off the wind Mizzen staysail worth its weight in gold and a 5 sail reach FANTASTIC.... On the other hand now I'm getting old I've gone for a sloop/cutter on the new boat (if I ever finish building)....regards Tony W.

<hr width=100% size=1>Tony W.

 

[Goldie]

I have to agree with Tony, the ketch is a doddle singlehanded and the mizzen staysail a real boon. In windier conditions and if pointing isn't the priority at the time, then headsail and mizzen keep things easy. In addition, the mizzen rigging makes for a very secure cockpit. I'm not saying have a ketch at all costs, but don't be put off. Nor is the rig significantly slower under most conditions, after 17000nm (nearly all doublehanded) in our long-keeled Biscay 36 we still enjoy overtaking "faster" boats, especially when the wind pipes up a bit!

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[MainlySteam]

I would go with what you say Oldsaltoz. Hardly anyone builds ketchs/yawls anymore, whether production or custom, unless the boat is very large. There is sound sense behind that.

I would add a semi-balanced spade rudder with no skeg in order to keep the helm loads down by way of low leeway pressure so allowing lighter load for autopilot and light manual steering with one wheel turn from lock to lock.

Not sure about the cat though - we have a saily type cat but he has four legs and purrs.

John

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[oldsaltoz]

G'day Alan,

A stack-pack is a basic lazy jack set up with a sail cover as part of the base, the main drops into the cover and you zip, all stacked inside.

You no doubt have them under another name.

Hope this helps.
Andavagoodweekend.......


<hr width=100% size=1> Old Salt Oz /forums/images/icons/cool.gif Growing old is unavoidable. However, growing up is still optional.

 

[snowleopard]

one old salt i sailed with said no one ever has two ketches, and he had sailed 80,000 miles in his ketch before going back to a sloop.

if you are the sort of sailor regularly blessed with reaching winds, get a ketch. for the rest of us who always find the wind ahead or occasionally dead astern the mizzen will spend most of its time stowed.

for ease of handling, get a stac-pac system. no reef points to tie in and you can drop the main into its bag without having to gather it up, even in 40 knots of wind.

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