Keeping a boat in Turkey, dangerous?

[affinite]

Our boat is in a Southern Turkey marina. I am confident that the terrible problems of Turkey, Syria, Tunisia and the Middle East in general will not directly affect us as yachties however the bombings in Istanbul, Antalya and Ankara as well as the miserable exodus of Syrian refugees through the Turkish/Dodecanese Aegean corridor have persuaded me that its time to move on. (My feelings are compounded by the fact that I have my Daughter and two young Grandchildren coming to sail with us for a week in June.)
I'm sad to go but I don't want my family exposed to even the slightest danger. My wife in particular does want to spend our holidays cruising in an area of such misery.

Skipper Stu's January post is at the back of my mind as I write ... Ironically we are headed back to Greece through the Cyclades's & Sporades. Maybe back to the Ionian.

Anyone else in Turkey concerned ?

 

[macd]

I'm sad to go but I don't want my family exposed to even the slightest danger. My wife in particular does want to spend our holidays cruising in an area of such misery.

Anyone else in Turkey concerned ?

Acutely concerned, yes, in the broadest sense. But equally alive to the developing situation as it might impact us. We're considering spending next winter in Turkey and will certainly be keeping a watching brief. We've previously spent two hugely enjoyable winters in Finike, but when Syrian refugees were a trickle rather than a flood, and obviously before the current bombing campaign.

The 'misery' you mention we've only observed in the Greek islands adjacent to Turkey. How that might change if refugees are forcibly returned to Turkey, we'll wait and see.

The tragic events in Brussels of just a couple of hours ago suggest yet again that nowhere's completely safe. And whilst I'm not about to put my head in the lion's maw, I'm bu**ered if I'll allow IS to dictate where I plan to sail. I appreciate that your family responsibilities may properly compel you to a different perspective.

 

[Niander]

Your a westerner...your a target...so am i...thats the way they work!
I would not be out there...even on holiday.

 

[Caladh]

Oh dear - they've won.

 

[macd]

Your a westerner...your a target...so am i...thats the way they work!

That must be a great comfort to the families of all the Turks that have been blown up.
Are you from Yourkshire, btw?

Oh dear - they've won.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I have to say if I had the worries of a young family on board, I too would be a bit more choosy where to navigate,
I don't consider Turkey to be any more dangerous Then Greece so far, the Med is becoming smaller each year as far as where it is and isn't safe to sail,
If you take note of everything that written and said we wouldn't travel anywhere.
The whole Northern coast from Morocco to Israel is seen has a no go area now, although we have friends who have wintered out in Tunisia and Morocco and know of two yachts in Israel all have had no troubles.
The mid islands of Lampedusa Pantelleria and in some cases Malta some feel it too risky to sail, in case they are approached by boat people.
Now it's seen Turkey and regions of the Greece islands, very shortly everyone will be heading back home.
I agree we all have to asset the risk and most of us are good at asserting risk, but as thing are, now I wouldn't say Turkey was any more Dangerous than Greece Italy or Croatia.

 

[macd]

+1 Vic.
A thought just popped into my head (a rare event, so maybe worth recording):
remember when the Provos were busily blowing up pubs etc in England? On the whole the locals responded stoically and carried on much as normal. A lot of US citizens, however, were widely derided for cancelling visits to the UK. Is the cap comparable? It seems as though it might fit.

 

[OldBawley]

I always felt perfectly safe in Turkey. I loved the place and people. But then they could not tell me to be a tourist, only after opening my mouth they knew I was “Yabanci “
For my wife it was different. She is the summit of Scandinavian type, was always stared at. She never felt at ease when visiting town , markets. She often said she was treated fine but when she turned her back or decided not to buy something, she felt a sort of hostility.

In early spring when the restaurant staff came back to their bay restaurants we often drank chai together, what the guys did not know is that I could understand ¾ of what they said.
Especially on behalf of European women, their idea of our women disgusted me.
I had also lots of contact with Turkish fishermen who came hide into “Our “ bay, they ware not as hostile towards sailing tourists as the restaurant crews. Curious isn´t it ?
Same with the farmers, never a “Money money “ feeling.

That said, the people working in those remote bays and restaurants are not the most civilised.
I often told them ( In pidgin English ) they ware living in paradise, but most of them wanted to go to Germany, drive a Mercedes. The idea they have of our country's is weird.
Met some more educated Turks, that was a totally different experience.

We left 5 years ago. Change of scenery but also because what is now happening started then.
Policing became felt, half of all internet sites closed, and every second word on radio of TV was “Terror”. Jeeez...talking of scaring the people.
We just could not feel welcome anymore.
Russians with big super mobo´s spend more in a short time, so did the ever increasing hire fleet.
We spend much more because we spend all year, the others max two weeks.

I would go back, the wife..., no way.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I think we are being a bit unfair , Turkey isn't England , France , Holland or Germany , it has it own culture the same has other Asian countries , just like North Africa has a different culture , and while I have to agree they do in some cases class women has second to the male gender ,personal I honestly can say my partner has never has any problem with the Turkish ,Moroccan , or Tunisia men , maybe it because we respect and except they ways and their culture , ( this is not to say you don't ) if any thing while in Turkey last year when ever she went out with or without me they where alway very respectful of her ,
Now and then while Bargaining a price down she get a remark and she then turn it into a joke and as a rule she get it at the price she wants all smile at the end of the day .
If we had to wait a while in a shop , she often was given a chair and offered a drink .
While buying food at the market it wasn't unusual for them to throw in extra food .

Like it or not Weston women have a very bad reputation in Turkey and not just in Turkey , more so the younger once .
One very good example , many time we sew Weston women walk around half naked though shopping centre , they where stared at and time men would try to approach them , some even shouted out remarked at them in Turkish ( probably , get bloody dress ) these same women will now go back with there story's of Turkish men hassle in them , I sorry but they leave them self open to being Hassled , you wouldn't see women walking around in short and a bikini top 10am or any other time in Bluewater shopping centre and if they did you can our bottom dollar they too would be wolf whistle at .
The point I am making is if people are offend by different culture , then it's best to stay away from these country's , I can only speak for our self , but we sail to there country to meet new people and experience different ways of life other wise I may just as well sail up and down the Spanish coast and eat chips .

 

[[29051]]

We have had problems with some of the men in the Gocek bay restaurants too, but the problem there is they are camping away from their wives and children all summer, with far too much money coming in and no-one to see what they get up to. A guest of ours encouraged one of them. She wouldn't believe us telling her he was married even though we had known him for years. He followed our boat for a week. Turned up every evening. We booked her an airport taxi and he cancelled it and sent his own driver. The driver was under instruction to take her to a house in Dalaman town not the airport.

What he didn't know was we had decided to share the taxi to the airport as we were leaving later the same day. I understood enough of the phone calls between the driver and the restaurant man to know something was not right. We made the driver tell us then insisted he took us straight to the airport or we would call the police. He was obviously quite scared of not following the instructions from the restaurant man. If she had been on her own it could have become a nasty situation.

But we have also seen people shopping in bikinis. Once we saw an English girl of about 16 with her parents in the market in Marmaris dressed in only a string bikini and flip flops. And a very large woman off a cruise ship who went out for the day in only a black swimming costume. The behaviour of many Western visitors is disgraceful.

We plan to go out this year to sail on a friend's boat. We won't spend any more time than we have to in Marmaris anyway and I doubt the villages will feel any different. We have never met with anything but kindness and generosity. I wish more airports had the bomb scanners at the entrance as Dalaman does. It feels safer there than most airports. I wouldn't visit Istanbul or Ankara at the moment but otherwise I am more worried travelling through London.

 

[OldBawley]

Just a funny anecdote about Dalaman airport.

My wife would arrive at Dalaman, so I took the boat to Göcek and wanted to collect her.
She had told me on previous travels that the taxi drivers at the airport ware a bit “ difficult”, did not want to take her to the dolmush bus station but insisted on a full taxi drive to Göcek. Money money.
So in order to put things right I took a dolmush to Dalaman town and then in stead of taking a taxi walked all the way to the airport. I would teach those guys a lesson.
I did not really walked while I had a push micro scooter. The real thing, with air filled tires, a nice toy for “adult” persons. Could not use the thing much in Turkey because roads ware to bad but the airport road was good. In Dalaman I had asked how far the airport was, all said it was way to far, could not be done without a taxi.
In fact going as fast as a bike, it was not that far at all.
Before reaching the main gate, you drive quit a way along the fence. A fence with watchtowers and real soldiers with guns. ( No shortage of soldiers in Turkey ) Those guys watched me with binoculars and spoke into walkytalky´s.
When the entrance gate came in sight, I folded the mini scooter and hung it on my back. After all, mini scooters ware so new, even kids did not have them in Turkey. Did not want to look stupid.

Arriving at the gate, barrier down and nobody in sight. Then I saw two guys with helmets peering over the counter of the gate house. I also saw gun barrels.
So I approached very slow, took the scooter from my shoulder ( They later told me it looked like a weapon ) and grinning as big as possible knocked on the window.

They sure did not grin. Boy, they ware mad, shouting in Turkish Dur Dur.
After quit a while an officer arrived, he spoke some English.
He told me it was forbidden to enter the airport without a taxi. I was the first one who ever tried entering at foot. He simply could not understand why I did not took a taxi.
So me with my big mouth and a bit angry as well told them there was no sign and that next time I would come on a donkey. We would see what they would do then. Hell, I would even bring friends who would film my arrival per donkey.
He then started policing. Pasaport.
Dahm, I had not carried a passport in my pockets for years and furthermore, I was “Forgotten” to log in arriving from Rhodes.
I turned pale, changed my strategy and started dripping honey. Told him I had left the pasaport on the yacht. The word yacht changed everything. All the sudden I was a good guy.
In the end, the officer drove me to the exit hall in his car and after my wife arrived we took a taxi to Dalaman village.
Not that the taxi driver agreed. I just told him to stop at the village and he could see I meant it.
In those days, one client a week was enough for those taxi drivers to live well. That is, one yabanci client. Turks paid different prices.

 

[satsuma]

I would struggle to find almost anywhere in the world "safe" to live in these days, irrespective of terror, with muggings, murders and worse in most towns and cities across Europe and the world. Terrorists probably do add a little more uncertainty into life, but as one poster has already said, life in the UK under the threat of the IRA et al, never slowed or stopped! People become more vigilant with regards to unattended bags, and public rubbish bins are now almost extinct in many parts of the world.

Here in Turkey, the same as anywhere in the world, most recently France and Belgium, life goes on. That said, people do become concerned, and only this weekend some friends cried off from a Sunday morning breakfast date with us, because his daughter was scared following the latest Istanbul bombing. We went anyway, and in truth I cannot say it was any less crowded than usual.

In Turkey I am less concerned about Terror, and more concerned about the incumbent politicians, with a distinct increase in authoritarianism and a strong suspicion that many of these terror events may even be contrived to herd the public into acceptance of more restrictive control. Maybe I've watched "V is for Vendetta" too many times?

Later this year I will be delivering my newest boat from the UK to Turkey, to enjoy for many years to come and yes I am considering crossing the Med on a passage slightly more North than I have previously, but no plans not to come.

As far as my experience in Turkey goes, I try to avoid the likes of Marmaris where possible, more that it is a tourist area than anything, but tourism has/is taking a significant hit in Turkey of late. Some figures say as high as an 80% reduction on bookings, which may leave many places much more attractive to visit?

The culture for foreigners is little different to previous years, open your mouth and they will try to double/treble the bill and charge euros, but that has been the case for some years. As previous posters have said, please don't expect to come to a Muslim country and act like it is Ibiza, there are moral issues to consider but tolerance is still commonplace in Turkey.

I live here most of the time, my wife and daughter live here too, and they both (me too) feel safer walking around here than they ever did in the UK, indeed many high streets in the UK I would consider no-go areas on a Friday or Saturday night! My Daughter will be getting married later this year to a Turkish man, who is intelligent, bright and educated, from a "good family" whatever that is, and someone who I will be proud to call son. It is likely that the uneducated villagers arriving in the cities and tourist areas from their farms will be sent wild by the bright lights and bikinis on the tourist beaches for a while, but it is not too common, or everyday (at least not that I have witnessed).

I will not urge tourists not to leave, or even visit Turkey in the first place, but this is more that I am hopeful the lack of tourists will drive costs down in Marinas and leave areas less developed by the tourism industry for me to visit and enjoy.

 

[Tony Cross]

This is a bit of a thread drift, but female (especially young female) tourists will wander around the towns on Crete in string bikini tops and, sometimes, with nothing covering their string bikini bottoms either. Greece is a very Christian country and the locals don't like it here either. Those involved in the tourist trade will put up with it for the sake of money, but I've seen old women spit at these young girls in disgust.

And whilst we're at it, would men please put a shirt on when you leave the beach? Especially the fat ones (German?) with a belly overhanging their shorts (or Speedos if they're Italian).

 

[sailaboutvic]

This is a bit of a thread drift, but female (especially young female) tourists will wander around the towns on Crete in string bikini tops and, sometimes, with nothing covering their string bikini bottoms either. Greece is a very Christian country and the locals don't like it here either. Those involved in the tourist trade will put up with it for the sake of money, but I've seen old women spit at these young girls in disgust.

And whilst we're at it, would men please put a shirt on when you leave the beach? Especially the fat ones (German?) with a belly overhanging their shorts (or Speedos if they're Italian).

Not much heard from you these days Tony ,
Missed you so much I was thinking of starting a threat , ( keeping a boat in Crete , Dangerous ) just to make sure your still with us .
But then I tho better of it , I didn't want you to miss your daily exercise of moving your right arm up and down .
Wink wink

 

[Tony Cross]

Not much heard from you these days Tony ,
Missed you so much I was thinking of starting a threat , ( keeping a boat in Crete , Dangerous ) just to make sure your still with us .
But then I tho better of it , I didn't want you to miss your daily exercise of moving your right arm up and down .
Wink wink

How do you know I'm not left-handed?

 

[Squeaky]

Good morning:

I am based in Marmaris and as far as my daily life is concerned the terrorist problem does not exist and I wouldn't even know about it if I didn't read the newspapers or watch TV. There are no refugees in this part of Turkey or should I say that I have never seen anyone that looked to be a refugee. I don't expect to encounter any along the coast south of Bodrum as there are no Greek islands adjacent to this part of the coast which attract refugees. Yes, there are the islands of Rhodes and Symi but there does not seem to be anyone willing to transport refugees to these islands. All the islands attracting refugees are further north of Bodrum.

If someone really wished to worry I am sure they can create a dangerous mental scenario to give them something to worry about but in reality there is no apparent danger in this part of Turkey and nothing to discourage anyone from visiting as in previous years.

There will certainly be many fewer charter yachts especially with Russian clients but that has nothing to do with terrorists - the decrease is connected with the cooling of diplomatic relations between Russia and Turkey because of the downing of a Russian jet in the south east some months ago.

Cheers

Squeaky

 

[Niander]

When i say westerner of course its not just Westerners just a generalization!
I am from Yorkshire...So what !...Your point is?
roll on the EU referendum so we can all vote the hell out of Europe..and i believe the UK will i know many people that are voting OUT
Thank God well get our security back again not dictated by the likes of Mertle and all the other EU idiots giving free movement of terrorists in the Schengen Area ....who in her wisdom just made the situation worse inviting more.[even though there is a shortage of housing already here in Europe ]
Anyway i live in Yorkshire ...Your point being???
Have they won?...no but lifes going be dangerous here for decades [Paris,Belgium]even when Raqqa is taken back.
Anyway i live in Yorkshire ...Your point being???

 

[akyaka]

That must be a few years ago Old Bawley it hasnt been a military airfield for quite some time

 

[akyaka]

Good morning:

I am based in Marmaris and as far as my daily life is concerned the terrorist problem does not exist and I wouldn't even know about it if I didn't read the newspapers or watch TV. There are no refugees in this part of Turkey or should I say that I have never seen anyone that looked to be a refugee. I don't expect to encounter any along the coast south of Bodrum as there are no Greek islands adjacent to this part of the coast which attract refugees. Yes, there are the islands of Rhodes and Symi but there does not seem to be anyone willing to transport refugees to these islands. All the islands attracting refugees are further north of Bodrum.

If someone really wished to worry I am sure they can create a dangerous mental scenario to give them something to worry about but in reality there is no apparent danger in this part of Turkey and nothing to discourage anyone from visiting as in previous years.

There will certainly be many fewer charter yachts especially with Russian clients but that has nothing to do with terrorists - the decrease is connected with the cooling of diplomatic relations between Russia and Turkey because of the downing of a Russian jet in the south east some months ago.

Cheers

Squeaky

+1

 

[OldBawley]

Yes,long time ago. We wintered there from 2002 up to 2011.
The airport was not exclusivity military then, civilian flights from spring to autumn.
The soldiers and guns ware real, I have been an MP ( Military police ) for some years, so I know how a soldier ( Or was it Gendarma ? ) looks like.
I don´t think fighter jets ware stationed there, every day Turkish jets screamed over at low altitude, those pilots are real cowboys. No shortage of fuel.
The last two winters we stayed in the Fethiye – Göcek bays, the coast guard used a helicopter to locate us.
By then there ware only three yachts moving around that stretch of coast in winter and the Coast guard had lots of boats to come and play police with us. We ware checked about every three days. All correct, never a problem ( except the usual courtesy flag every two weeks ) but it is not funny to be policed like that when hundreds of yachts in the marina´s ware left in peace.
I understood it was some sort of game for them. If they could not find us with the three big coastguard vessels they used the copter. ( I knew every rock and every corner of those bays )
Our boat is not white, is very hard to see against a rocky shore. I even painted our wind generator with camouflage paint, that moving white generator was the only part that could be seen from far away.
It is possible that someone complained about me laying fishing nets. I had asked around and apparently in those days there was no rule against fishing for own consumption. My friends fisherman could not be bothered about 50 meter of net, they even taught me how to fish with the long lines.
Ahhh, what a time. I remember those small boats coming into the bay at night , using tin cans filled with pine juice as navigating lights. If windy the flames two feet long. Looked like ghost ships. Often they had a big feta can with a blazing fire in the middle of their 5 or 6 meter boat. They always invited me for cay ( and a special sort of cigarette ) and we than sat with three or four man in a cabin less than a meter high, about 1,5 meter square.
However, I refused to let them moor against my boat while they ware floating cockroach farms.