Keep off the rocks!

[dom]

Hi all, I've published this video because of the lack of training material about modern, digital navigation..............

Not a bad little vid judging from the first couple of minutes. Although mentioning the RYA as you swung into the saloon saw you trapped in a full-on gunfight before you even got to the bar. Not bad!

Welcome, I think you’ll get along just fine in here ?

 

[GHA]

, it will make yachting much safer.

*much* safer.......... not convinced.... some sailors just don't have a navigators head on their shoulders .. Navionics on their smart phone probably made their passages*much* safer..certainly a handful I've met...

For cruising anywhere close to off the beaten track sat images really are gold dust,
Mbtiles for OpenCPN: a Huge Step Forward for Satellite Charting - Currents Bluewater Cruising

 

[Ceejay]

Bloody hell, tough crowd.

I enjoyed your video and thought it was a useful and entertaining reminder of all the holes you can put your foot in when navigating.

I agree with you.
My impression has always been that there is a lot of self serving snobbery surrounding the RYA. The courses they provide seem to encourage self belief in people who, having gained a certificate think they are invincible, but then often lack the experience, common sense and natural ability to be genuinely competent at sea.
My opinions are based on observations made over a ten year period chartering my yacht. The skipper who caused most mischief and damage was a recently qualified narcissistic RYA Yachtmaster, who effectively prompted my decision to throw the towel in. The best crew were a group of canny elderly gents who had sailed together for decades and had only a VHF certificate by way of paper qualifications. To summarise my experience of chartering, I met many really decent folks most of whom were competent, and a few who, though nice people were completely useless, despite having attended RYA courses. Yachtmasters in general were reliable, but the narcissistic one undoubtedly was in a league of his own in terms of unpleasantness, uselessness and being a downright danger on the high seas. One thing that was clear to me at the time, was that very few nowadays seem to be adept at handling tools, let alone have the ability to carry out mechanical repairs. I doubt very much if the RYA Diesel engine course equips many to carry out effective problem solving or repairs at sea, if they do not already have some experience in that regard.

 

[RJJ]

I liked the video.

I am sure if you want some criticism of your presentation style and video composition, you would get it elsewhere.

It's a good reminder, not least to those of us who learned the old way and have picked up digital nav without formal coaching, to use different sources of information, different perspectives, have backups and zoom in.

As for the towel-over-head bit, I think you are right to assume we know not to sit there all day...just for the 20s to restore screen brightness.

 

[RupertW]

No, not a step ahead, I've been campaigning for more digital training for 20 years.
But it's really good to see it happening now, it will make yachting much safer.

It’s not that recent - been part of RYA for at least 10 years and was mentioned at some length nearly 20 years ago too.

 

[Stemar]

added to the fact that me or somebody else will have drawn the graph and absorbed the information that it took to create.

That's the important bit. It's a bit like shopping. If I make a list, I can usually remember everything on it without looking - just as well, because I usually lose it before I get to the shops, if I don't write it down, I'm stuffed.

One thing I don't understand is why, with all the computing power available, when you plot a course, the plotter doesn't automatically check on the highest resolution charts that there's nothing around that will spoil your day. OK, I don't expect that on the cheap and cheerfuls, but something you're going to use for racing across oceans should be able to cope.

 

[john_morris_uk]

That's the important bit. It's a bit like shopping. If I make a list, I can usually remember everything on it without looking - just as well, because I usually lose it before I get to the shops, if I don't write it down, I'm stuffed.

One thing I don't understand is why, with all the computing power available, when you plot a course, the plotter doesn't automatically check on the highest resolution charts that there's nothing around that will spoil your day. OK, I don't expect that on the cheap and cheerfuls, but something you're going to use for racing across oceans should be able to cope.

But that check isn’t enough because as soon as you depart you’ll be off track and racing crew know better than most that sailing the track is rarely the quickest way to get there. Wind shifts and tack and gybe angles mean that the check on your track needs to be continually updated. And even that’s not enough because it’s only checking against the charting data that it’s got and we all know that data is often unreliable.

Navigating is more than driving a boat round a screen and it’s one argument (not necessarily a compelling one) for NOT having a plotter at the helm.

There are numerous tales of people hitting the putty who were convinced they knew where they were (whatever nav aids and techniques they were using). It might be argued that this applies to almost everyone who goes aground accidentally.

 

[GHA]

One thing I don't understand is why, with all the computing power available, when you plot a course, the plotter doesn't automatically check on the highest resolution charts that there's nothing around that will spoil your day. OK, I don't expect that on the cheap and cheerfuls, but something you're going to use for racing across oceans should be able to cope.

OpenCPN will almost do that with the watchdog plugin, set an alarm if land is within x Nm. Based on GSHSS background charts but good enough for a single hander.
Watchdog [OpenCPN Manuals]

 

[Stemar]

I'm more concerned if the land is less than X metres below me...

 

[GHA]

I'm more concerned if the land is less than X metres below me...

Up to date charts are best for planning for that, and a sounder, and knowing where you are

Maybe a copy of this on your kindle -

Introduction to Electronic Chart Navigation: With an Annotated ECDIS Chart No. 1 eBook: David Burch, Tobias Burch: Amazon.co.uk: Kindle Store

 

[john_morris_uk]

Hi John,
I did my ICC with a RYA accredited instructor, a half-day sail and a theory test after. My ticket was issued by MCA, IYT. My test covered nothing about digital nav.
My wife and son did the test with another RYA accredited instructor. They had to do, and pass the online study course for the Day Skipper which took 25 hours. Then a half day practical test, with very brief mention of the chartplotter. Their tickets were issued in Ireland I think, so maybe our courses were not really RYA, I don't know how it works.

I may be wrong about the RYA training. In researching this video I've spent a lot of time online looking for training materials on digital navigation. I've already spent $4,500 on our ICC's, I didn't want to spend many thousands more looking for digital training!

Golly! That’s a lot of money.

I also think you’re completely missing the target when you cite RYA DS and the ICC in your complaints.

Firstly, RYA DS is awarded when the instructor (at the end of five days othree weekends) believes you are competent enough to sail a boat (or drive a Mobo) in familiar waters by day. The DS theory course (which is not a prerequisite for doing a DS practical course) covers digital nav aids when it is taught properly.

The ICC just says you've had a practical test and can drive a boat at a pretty basic level.

You’re citing the qualifications as evidence of a lack of something that they were never designed for.

 

[C08]

Thanks for posting -I enjoyed it. A usefull reminder of how to have a "plotter assisted grounding"!

 

[lw395]

When I did my YM theory, we got an 'off syllabus' one hour lecture/presentation about electronic navigation. Decca and RDF, plus a few words about radar. GPS was not available to civilians in those days.

 

[fredrussell]

Well, I enjoyed the vid - much obliged. When I did the Day Skipper practical 5 years ago there was absolutely no training in electrickery. I’m glad to hear there is now

 

[RichardS]

Mmmmm ... you can't get (or at least are not supposed to be able to get .. ) an ICC based on the DS Theory course ... you need the DS Practical Course Completion Certificate for the ICC ...

You can't even get an ICC with Yachtmaster Theory and over 10 years boat ownership experience. I've tried several times but I get a rejection every time.

Richard

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

The video was good and initiates discussions, also a reminder that we need to be familiar with all forms of navigational methods including electronic chartplotting. I have done, many years ago, the Yachtmaster and Yachtmaster Astronavigation theory courses; also done the ICC, never had the opportunity to do a navigation course that uses digital navigation/chartplotter, although I have been using digital in parallel to paper charts since Decca in the 80's and GPS since then. My sextant has not been used for a couple of decades and nowadays, I enjoy using Navionics; all navigation methods have their limitations. I welcome your video as one man's view point; it highlights some very important issues; dont be put off by the critics.

 

[PetiteFleur]

I also have Navionics on an Android tablet and found it excellent, backed up with paper charts of course.

 

[V1701]

You can't even get an ICC with Yachtmaster Theory and over 10 years boat ownership experience. I've tried several times but I get a rejection every time.

Richard

Whilst I sympathise and not to cast any aspersions whatsoever on your boat handling ability/seamanship, in order to get an ICC someone needs to see that you can handle the boat to the required standard. To demonstrate this we book an examiner to come and do an ICC exam on our own boat or do a DS Practical course. It pisses me off as well but that's the hoop we have to jump through to get an ICC. All the navigation theory in the world doesn't mean you can handle a boat, nor does owning one...

 

[RichardS]

Whilst I sympathise and not to cast any aspersions whatsoever on your boat handling ability/seamanship, in order to get an ICC someone needs to see that you can handle the boat to the required standard. To demonstrate this we book an examiner to come and do an ICC exam on our own boat or do a DS Practical course. It pisses me off as well but that's the hoop we have to jump through to get an ICC. All the navigation theory in the world doesn't mean you can handle a boat, nor does owning one...

That could be true, but I would have thought that sailing between Croatia, Italy and Greece which involves 24 hour and 48 hour passages would qualify one for an ICC provided that one could prove the passages ..., and photos of my boat with me on it in those different locations would surely be sufficient proof?

Richard

 

[[70521]]

One thing I don't understand is why, with all the computing power available, when you plot a course, the plotter doesn't automatically check on the highest resolution charts that there's nothing around that will spoil your day. OK, I don't expect that on the cheap and cheerfuls, but something you're going to use for racing across oceans should be able to cope.

I am sure it is not that far off. I think I've seen a system from Raymarine that will do it. From a computing angle is it just a matter of getting the depth constantly and making sure that there is more water under the keel at any given time. There would need to be some guard round outfalls and buoys to make for a smoother ride and things that did not go bump in the night