Keep It Simple, Stoopid!

zoidberg

zoidberg

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 Nov 2016
Messages
6,907
Visit site
In reworking my current 'project's electrics, I'd thought to keep it simple and honest.

Totting up this morning, I was shocked - not by the Start Battery, but by the numbers:

Tricolour
Stern
Steaming
Deck
P&S/Pulpit

VHF
AIS
Handheld-charger
Autohelm
Cabin lights
Yeoman plotter
GPS
Cockpit instruments
Bilgepump
Audio-player/radio
Engine bay light
Phone/tablet charger

Strewth! Weren't like that when ah were a lad...
 
zoidberg said:
In reworking my current 'project's electrics, I'd thought to keep it simple and honest.

Totting up this morning, I was shocked - not by the Start Battery, but by the numbers:

Tricolour
Stern
Steaming
Deck
P&S/Pulpit

VHF
AIS
Handheld-charger
Autohelm
Cabin lights
Yeoman plotter
GPS
Cockpit instruments
Bilge pump
Audio player/radio
Engine bay light
Phone/tablet charger

Strewth! Weren't like that when ah were a lad...
Click to expand...
Modern times. There are also some common things you may want to provide space for, if they do not exist now:

  • Cabin fan (just put it on the cabin light circuit)
  • Inverter, even a small one
  • AC power system (120 or 240 V)
  • Heat can really stretch the season
  • Potable water pump
  • Tiller pilot
Not everything needs its own breaker. They don't in your house. They just need a switch.
Cheers.
 
thinwater said:
Modern times. There are also some common things you may want to provide space for, if they do not exist now:

  • Cabin fan (just put it on the cabin light circuit)
  • Inverter, even a small one
  • AC power system (120 or 240 V)
  • Heat can really stretch the season
  • Potable water pump
  • Tiller pilot
Not everything needs its own breaker. They don't in your house. They just need a switch.
Cheers.
Click to expand...

In the 'how much can I delete' exercise, you're being really unhelpful! :eek:

  • We're talking mostly West Side of Britain waters, where horizontal rain and 40-knot fog is common....
  • Come to think on't, I have one o' they. Can't think why. Not to keep the beer cool, surely? There are waterside pubs around here....
  • The boat came with a ropey AC setup. Distrusted it. Removed it. Same as the gas setup....
  • When ah were a lad, that was provided by a couple of nubile 'crew'....
  • As above, 'there are waterside pubs around here'....
  • Tiller pilot aka autohelm provided for, but windvane thingy even cheaper.....
  • Then there's the Chinese/Russian diesel cabin heater. Or old-school paraffin Tilley lamp....
:ROFLMAO:
 
zoidberg said:
In reworking my current 'project's electrics, I'd thought to keep it simple and honest.

Totting up this morning, I was shocked - not by the Start Battery, but by the numbers:

Tricolour
Stern
Steaming
Deck
P&S/Pulpit

VHF
AIS
Handheld-charger
Autohelm
Cabin lights
Yeoman plotter
GPS
Cockpit instruments
Bilgepump
Audio-player/radio
Engine bay light
Phone/tablet charger

Strewth! Weren't like that when ah were a lad...
Click to expand...
I would not bother with:-
Tricolour (if you want backup then buy a set of led navigation lights with dry cell batteries)
Engine bay lights (for how often you need these buy self contained lights with dry cell batteries, some even come with motion sensors so you can't forget to turn them off)
Deck light (use head torches, much better)
And, combine the plotter, gps and ais on one switch/breaker as you will be using those all at the same time)
 
zoidberg said:
In the 'how much can I delete' exercise, you're being really unhelpful! :eek:

  • We're talking mostly West Side of Britain waters, where horizontal rain and 40-knot fog is common....
  • Come to think on't, I have one o' they. Can't think why. Not to keep the beer cool, surely? There are waterside pubs around here....
  • The boat came with a ropey AC setup. Distrusted it. Removed it. Same as the gas setup....
  • When ah were a lad, that was provided by a couple of nubile 'crew'....
  • As above, 'there are waterside pubs around here'....
  • Tiller pilot aka autohelm provided for, but windvane thingy even cheaper.....
  • Then there's the Chinese/Russian diesel cabin heater. Or old-school paraffin Tilley lamp....
:ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
Sorry? (really:))

My PDQ had lots of systems, but the F-24 I have now is quite simple. But I still have heat.

Regarding heat, something that vents outside the cabin (not a lamp) is much drier and really worth it in the cold and damp. It can be something simple. However, it truly helps to have a very small fan blow across it and the flue to spread the heat. I use a tiny USB fan sitting on the gally chopping block on my F-24; just enough to move the heat without causing a big draft. I don't leave it on at night, but I like thick quilts.

stovetop-heater-diagram.jpg


sailboat-heater-flue-vent-510x680.jpg


Hot Stuff – DIY Sailboat Cabin Heater | Good Old Boat
 
thinwater said:
Modern times. There are also some common things you may want to provide space for, if they do not exist now:

Not everything needs its own breaker. They don't in your house. They just need a switch.
Cheers.
Click to expand...

Modern times, our house only has breakers.

and

on our cat all the big appliances, windlass, fridge, instruments were on separate circuits with their own breaker.

Might different jurisdictions and power useages impose different restrictions

Jonathan
 
Plum said:
I would not bother with:-
(if you want backup then buy a set of led navigation lights with dry cell batteries)
Click to expand...
Hmmm.

One of THOSE memories, which sticks, of sailing slow and solo on a very dark night eastwards past The Lizard, with some of those ^ above gaffer-taped onto the coachroof rails....

Looking astern and seeing two very big and much blacker shapes coming steadily up behind me. Yes, I could just about make out their masthead/steaming lights through the murk, and it seemed one was shaping to pass the other. I thought it probable that the watch-crews would be focussed on their passing manoeuvre, and not on my feeble little dry-cell stern light.

I didn't have anything posh like AIS, nor even an effective radar reflector. I did, though, have the power of fervent prayer, and my supplications were answered when one-after-the-other they slowly changed aspect and turned up towards Falmouth and the big anchorage off Pendennis.

I made myself a promise, there and then, that my future night-lights would of the BIG F'OFF variety - and so would my radar reflectology.
Within the week I'd consulted in detail with those excellent people at Echomax and got me some of their excellent kit.... and my stern lightery is now way more than twice the weebly luminosity indicated as minimum for my size of boat. And I have my MilSpec handheld strobe.
 
Neeves said:
Modern times, our house only has breakers.

and

on our cat all the big appliances, windlass, fridge, instruments were on separate circuits with their own breaker.

Might different jurisdictions and power useages impose different restrictions

Jonathan
Click to expand...
Not for every light. You don't have fuses, but you have a lot of switches. Many boaters think they need a breaker everywhere a switch is needed. As you say, some things justify separate breakers. But like a house, many things can be ganged and then switched.
 
zoidberg said:
Hmmm.

One of THOSE memories, which sticks, of sailing slow and solo on a very dark night eastwards past The Lizard, with some of those ^ above gaffer-taped onto the coachroof rails....

Looking astern and seeing two very big and much blacker shapes coming steadily up behind me. Yes, I could just about make out their masthead/steaming lights through the murk, and it seemed one was shaping to pass the other. I thought it probable that the watch-crews would be focussed on their passing manoeuvre, and not on my feeble little dry-cell stern light.

I didn't have anything posh like AIS, nor even an effective radar reflector. I did, though, have the power of fervent prayer, and my supplications were answered when one-after-the-other they slowly changed aspect and turned up towards Falmouth and the big anchorage off Pendennis.

I made myself a promise, there and then, that my future night-lights would of the BIG F'OFF variety - and so would my radar reflectology.
Within the week I'd consulted in detail with those excellent people at Echomax and got me some of their excellent kit.... and my stern lightery is now way more than twice the weebly luminosity indicated as minimum for my size of boat. And I have my MilSpec handheld strobe.
Click to expand...
White para flare catches the attention of a dozy watch keeper (and anyone else in the vicinity) - or if in panic more - any flare. I've practiced but never done it in anger......and I always carried a white para flare in the grab bag.

and/or Stemar's light, on the sails, and/or aimed at the watch keepers eyes. I've done this in anger - it seems to work.

Jonathan
 
zoidberg said:
In reworking my current 'project's electrics, I'd thought to keep it simple and honest.

Totting up this morning, I was shocked - not by the Start Battery, but by the numbers:

Tricolour
Stern
Steaming
Deck
P&S/Pulpit

VHF
AIS
Handheld-charger
Autohelm
Cabin lights
Yeoman plotter
GPS
Cockpit instruments
Bilgepump
Audio-player/radio
Engine bay light
Phone/tablet charger

Strewth! Weren't like that when ah were a lad...
Click to expand...
That's pretty good. We have 24 breakers. We need them all😬
The nav lights are another 6 on a separate panel
 
We have 30 seperate fused circuits on our 34ft deck saloon. Not everything will have a switch and we've split the fuse panels fwd and aft so that we have more primary cabling and less small guage wiring - the amount of weight that adds up when everything has a 10mtr live & earth run is frightening!

Our setup won't be to everyone's taste but it is more modern and will work fine for us.
 
Moodysailor said:
We have 30 seperate fused circuits on our 34ft deck saloon. Not everything will have a switch and we've split the fuse panels fwd and aft so that we have more primary cabling and less small guage wiring - the amount of weight that adds up when everything has a 10mtr live & earth run is frightening!

Our setup won't be to everyone's taste but it is more modern and will work fine for us.
Click to expand...
The beauty of a 24v boat. Wire sized are much smaller for the same power
 
The KISS objective is always a sensible goal to aim for, but install plenty of extra breakers. Electrics have a habit of expanding and trying to piggyback devices onto a small number of breakers is not usually a good solution.
 
geem said:
The beauty of a 24v boat. Wire sized are much smaller for the same power
Click to expand...
Yes, but there is a minmum scale. A lot of our old wiring had some heavy gauge (2.5mm, 4mm 6mm2) included, as we are refitting we've found with modern pumps, lights and gear we are very rarely using much bigger than 1.5mm2 cable, and this would be the same for 24V in most cases.

Because of the lower loads, the primary cabling serving the fuse panels is much smaller (still oversize at 16mm2). This has reduced a lot of complexity, cost and weight as the smaller loads are much closer to the consumers.
 
noelex said:
The KISS objective is always a sensible goal to aim for, but install plenty of extra breakers. Electrics have a habit of expanding and trying to piggyback devices onto a small number of breakers is not usually a good solution.
Click to expand...
Definitly. We have 6 spare fuse slots and are already worried it isn't enough. I made a good tacticla choice and have a spare primary fuse so I can add another fuse block later if it comes to it. Electrics always expand!
 
zoidberg said:
Hmmm.

One of THOSE memories, which sticks, of sailing slow and solo on a very dark night eastwards past The Lizard, with some of those ^ above gaffer-taped onto the coachroof rails....

Looking astern and seeing two very big and much blacker shapes coming steadily up behind me. Yes, I could just about make out their masthead/steaming lights through the murk, and it seemed one was shaping to pass the other. I thought it probable that the watch-crews would be focussed on their passing manoeuvre, and not on my feeble little dry-cell stern light.

I didn't have anything posh like AIS, nor even an effective radar reflector. I did, though, have the power of fervent prayer, and my supplications were answered when one-after-the-other they slowly changed aspect and turned up towards Falmouth and the big anchorage off Pendennis.

I made myself a promise, there and then, that my future night-lights would of the BIG F'OFF variety - and so would my radar reflectology.
Within the week I'd consulted in detail with those excellent people at Echomax and got me some of their excellent kit.... and my stern lightery is now way more than twice the weebly luminosity indicated as minimum for my size of boat. And I have my MilSpec handheld strobe.
Click to expand...
My ancient “steamer scarer” 6v LA Battery with a halogen 6” lens came in to its own off Cadiz a few years ago. There was a BIG oiler stooging around, AIS switched off. We were making passage from Gib to Faro. Dark as the hobs of hell, I noticed his green and red pointing at me getting closer! I started calling on 16, no answer, then I pointed the SS at his bridge, yes it was that close! Then all of a sudden his AIS came alive and I called him direct. A sleepy sounding foreign voice answered. He denied switching the AIS off, its status was now NUC! Lying toad but I’d got his attention, he was close, he would have hit me! Basically they were waiting to load or unload at the refinery nearby. Nowadays my tiny LED hand torch gives as much light as my steamer scarer
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top