Keel/Rudder design

Baggywrinkle said:
Here are some example bilges/keel bolts from a 21 year old Bavaria 36 ..... looks awful doesn't it? :rolleyes: Briney bilges? .... nope, just have to hoover out all the dust and crumbs at the end of the season.

PS: They are still torqued to the original spec and the keel is still there - even though it spent the first 10 years of its life as a charter boat.

You don't half hear a load of old bollox on these forums.

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Some of the flowcoat has come off. Must have weakened it ;-)
 
coopec said:
Are we facing a keel and rudder failure ‘time-bomb’?

Are we facing a keel and rudder failure ‘time-bomb’? | Ocean Sailor Magazine
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Emotive, and biased reporting to support a particular viewpoint (and to sell a particular boat brand?)

As posted earlier, the vast majority of keel issues are race boats, owner modified boats, heavily grounded boats - or a combination of all three.

There are perhaps about 3-5 exceptions - Polina Star (the shocking Oyster example) and a Jeanneau which left its keel (in the Scillies, I think) but amazingly sailed home. This out of perhaps 3-5 million fin keel production boats?
Probably more been sunk by lightning, certainly more sunk by fire.

Examples like super extreme race boats losing hydraulic swing keels (per the article) are totally irrelevant to normal cruising boats.

The OP likes building his own boat, which is a fine hobby. But others prefer going sailing, which is also fine.
But the OP should not lob ill founded accusations of boats not being suitable for ocean cruising, which anybody who has been out in the Oceans would see is simply untrue.
(And if lobbing criticism about engineering of other boats, should not be over sensitive when some make observations about the OP’s boat’s engineering - glass houses / boats and all that)
 
Bobc said:
Some of the flowcoat has come off. Must have weakened it ;-)
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I'm sure it's a total write-off and I'm risking my life every time I take her out ..... ? ? ?

I have a friend with a 1980s Sunn Fizz .... it was grounded hard early on in its life and repaired under insurance ... the internal grid was damaged and the cabin sole is now raised by 1cm ... .it's been sailing like that in single ownership for the last 35years with no further issues.
 
Pretty sure the Sun Fizz was not built with a matrix which was probably why the boat was able to be fixed.

It's a tough well made boat - see the YM crash tests. Good example of 70s / 80s style that has and still could, make a suitable cheap, offshore vehicle.

.
 
Brent Swain - whatever happened to BS - is adamant we are taking our lives in our hands unless we choose a steel boat.

As Baggy said, plenty of bollox about.

AFAIK, no matrix a la Bendy Toy in the Jeanau Sun Fizz. I looked at one for a friend who wished to join a syndicate. It had internal reinforcement for the keel bolts, a bit like wide stringers IIRC.
 
Baggywrinkle said:
Brioney bilges? .... nope, just have to hoover out all the dust and crumbs at the end of the season.

You don't half hear a load of old bollox on these forums.
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Briny bilges.

Brioney Bilges was the name of a vintage porn star.

I went to see an old Westerly once. Noticed the damp crack (no, on the Westerly, not Brioney) between the keel and GRP shoulder someone else mentioned. It's quite common on wooden boats too where it seems to seap along the entire length.

Had a look underneath and there was evidence of rivulets having running down from the crack at the keel, not above. Inside, although the sole of the cabin was dry and unmarked by tidemarks, both keel bilges/lockers were half full with green water. No other easy way it could have gotten into them unless the boat had been knee deep in sea water. No rain water nor wind blown rain that might have gotten in through hatches, but salty.

It was the second of two Westerlys, albeit different models, with the same symtoms that I've seen. I would have still bought it but the yard couldn't or weren't interested in taking it apart to reseal it.

Make note of your personally anecdote but be respectful not to insult someone else's WrinklyBag. To be quite frank, I don't think another gentleman's bollocks should really be on your mind at all during polite conversation.

God forbid you're a teabagger.

As an aside, have any of these builders adapted the system Marcon used with the Trident (of horizontal keel bolts)? It seemed strong.
 
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Hallberg-Rassy said:
Briny bilges.

Brioney Bilges was the name of a vintage porn star.

I went to see an old Westerly once. Noticed the damp crack (no, on the Westerly, not Brioney) between the keel and GRP shoulder someone else mentioned. It's quite common on wooden boats too where it seems to seap along the entire length.

Had a look underneath and there was evidence of rivulets having running down from the crack at the keel, not above. Inside, although the sole of the cabin was dry and unmarked by tidemarks, both keel bilges/lockers were half full with green water. No other easy way it could have gotten into them unless the boat had been knee deep in sea water. No rain water nor wind blown rain that might have gotten in through hatches, but salty.

It was the second of two Westerlys, albeit different models, with the same symtoms that I've seen. I would have still bought it but the yard couldn't or weren't interested in taking it apart to reseal it.

Make note of your personally anecdote but be respectful not to insult someone else's WrinklyBag. To be quite frank, I don't think another gentleman's bollocks should really be on your mind at all during polite conversation.

God forbid you're a teabagger.

As an aside, have any of these builders adapted the system Marcon used with the Trident (of horizontal keel bolts)? It seemed strong.
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Thank you for enlightening us ... not into vintage porn I'm afraid so didn't know there was a connection to briney bilges.

... and I'm sorry if you though I was insulting your wrinkley bag, but what on earth is a teabagger? Anything to do with Brioney Bilges? ... think I've lived a very sheltered life by the sounds of it.
 
Baggywrinkle said:
Thank you for enlightening us ... not into vintage porn I'm afraid so didn't know there was a connection to briney bilges.

... and I'm sorry if you though I was insulting your wrinkley bag, but what on earth is a teabagger? Anything to do with Brioney Bilges? ... think I've lived a very sheltered life by the sounds of it.
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Tea-bagging is what happens to the crew on a Fireball when the helm is not very good.
Allegedly.
 
Coopec said "he believes that ......." that is his opinion. I'm not sure why some seem to be trying to force their opinion on him?
I see a lot, not a few but a lot of fin keeled boat owners attending to the joint between keel and hull. Maybe it's just maintenance ?
Most of us know how often sealants fail around windows and hatches so why should it be any different between keel and hull?
The keel gets large loads placed on it, could it flex enough to let water in?
So water could get to the keel bolts, next comes galvanic corrosion ?
What is the current state of keel bolts on boats?
That is unknown as keel removal for a survey seems a vary rare thing.

Our club has a large amount of fin keelers using the concrete based scrubbing grids.
How do the boats fare after being bounced up and down on the concrete at the time of touchdown or lifting?
Surely there must be consequences, maybe time will tell

I'm not suggesting any of the above is happening but I do believe it will be to some.
How many is what none of us know.
 
Bobc said:
Why don't you just give it a rest. If you're happy with your boat, then that's fine. You don't need to keep banging on with ridiculous claims that anything else is incapable and unsafe just to satisfy your inferiority complex.
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I started off the thread because of this statement on another thread"

"This thread was inspired by TernV1's comment "The OP's boat is heavy with a primitive unbalanced rudder."

I think my keel/rudder is fine on a cruising boat (at least it won't fall off)
 
Maybe the forum would be a better place if we avoided all this ghastly talk of under-bodies, and stuck to more civilized topics such as anchors?
 
I am surprised at the vitriolic, bigoted, sarcastic, narrow minded and just plain rude comments of people commenting above. Each to his own I say. I love yachts. I love ALL yachts (especially ones without fin keels and balanced rudders)
 
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coopec said:
I believe the modern day production yachts are good for Coastal Cruising, sitting in a marina and club racing but definitely not for Blue Water Cruising.
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coopec said:
A young couple are trying to repair (I think) a Beneteau yacht that lost its' keel and everyone seems to think that was poor workmanship by Beneteau.
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coopec said:
I am surprised at the vitriolic, bigoted, sarcastic, narrow minded and just plain rude comments of people commenting above. Each to his own I say. I love yachts. I love ALL yachts (especially ones without fin keels and balanced rudders)
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Consider it a salutary lesson.

Many would consider you the one with bigoted, narrow mind. Churlish trolls and possibly libellous comments should not go unchallenged.

You’re not even man enough to apologise for the second, vitriolic comment.
 
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Skylark said:
Consider it a salutary lesson.

Many would consider you the one with bigoted, narrow mind. Churlish trolls and possibly libellous comments should not go unchallenged.

You’re not even man enough to apologise for the second, vitriolic comment.
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Why the vitriol? (I take it your yacht has a fin keel then)? :unsure:
Why don't you take a Bex and have a lay down?
 
coopec said:
Why the vitriol? (I take it your yacht has a fin keel then)? :unsure:
Why don't you take a Bex and have a lay down?
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There’s nothing bitter nor malice in my comments.
I’ve expressed no opinion and have merely pointed at that your first assertion is plainly wrong and that your second is also plainly wrong and is possibly libellous.

I see also that you’ve now resorted to patronising sarcasm. Do yourself a favour and give it a rest.
 
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