keel repair advice

[finnlou]

Does this damage look serious ? is it DIY repairable or does it need a pro ?

The seperation is for about 1/3 the length of the boat, it looks fairly recent as the exposed faces do not look like they have been exposed to the environment for any length of time (seperation may have occured when boat was lifted from the water).

 

[JasB]

I would seek advice from a Pro

 

[Dave99]

I can ensure you that will be fairly expensive to fix!

 

[tcm]

um, doesn't look too horrendous. Looking at your bio, this is a wooden hull (?) in Looe so presuambly it dries out and this lump of metal is specifically designed to be the thing that takes weight. I suppose the whol idea is that it breaks at some time - much better wear or bash that rather than the hull itself. I think it will need some work to blast/clean/weld it up or to replace a section but shdn't be megaexpensive. Need to see more of the situation to establish if the whole things needs replacing

 

[finnlou]

Hi, yes it is a wooden hull moored in Looe, so yes spends a lot of it's time sat on it's keel, the split only extends another couple of feet ether side of what is shown in the picture. I had a close look at the split (not really a split it is actually more a parting of two previously joined srtips) to see if there was any sign of previous fixing, but there is no sign of any sheered or corroded bolts, so I am presuming the two wooden strips were just glued at one time. The metal strip itself still appears to be firmly attached to its wooden strip, the only picture of the full length of the keel I have is when it was sat on it's mooring and as such you can not see the split /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[tcm]

DIY not an option?

still not enough information, really - we can't see how long the piece is, how it's connected at each end and so on.

So, in answer to your orirginal question ... I *think* that if you're asking about a diy option then...it's not really an option for you. Cos a real diy-er has no qualms whatsoever about their abilities and would have had it in bits already. Real diy-ers don't ever wonder if they can tackle things. No sir! They are straight in there without hesitation. They win real-world experience by atempting all manner of projects, often breaking or ruining perfectly good items in the process whilst in their teens or even earlier. As middle age approaches, the experienced diyer has tons of tools including a Rechargeable Wallet, and a Wide-angle Philosophical Outlook ("it was probably about to break anyway, so it's a good job i've smashed it now, before it broke, really").

So, i think you should ask a local boatyard to bodge it up a bit. It needs a bit of welding, cleaning up, drilling and pissing about and should cost praps £200. This means it will actually cost £400 plus VAT, but what the heck. If you buy the tools then you'll just have to usem and then (often) eventually choose the pro route anyway.

 

[finnlou]

Re: DIY not an option?

it is not the metal part I am worried about. it is the seperation of the wood that my enquiry is about, not whether the metal strip needs repair.

As I said, the split is about 1/3 the length of the boat ie about 6-7ft, the picture shows most of it, I can post a picture of it where it isn't split, but that won't help you to see how it is attached, if it did I wouldn't be bothering to ask these questions.

I am perfectly capable of "bodging it up" my self, but thought that the point of a forum was to share experiences and ask advice, but this one doesn't seem to be about that, so I won't bother again.

 

[sofka]

Re: DIY not an option?

what about cleaning the crack up. Bung in some epoxy [when the weather has eventually reached 15C+] jack up the keel to fit in a couple of places and Bobs your uncle?
the iron work looks like a sacrificial strip.

 

[tcm]

Re: DIY not an option?

aw, bit touchy! I actually answered you question - what you meant to ask is "how to fix this".

ok.

there are two sepret issues, One is the split of that metal piece - i wd have thort another piece would screw on no prob. I'd use a say longer piece of stainless if possible or mild steel if not, and self tap into the steel and/or drill through to the wood too, countersunk.

If the crack "takes up" when at rest, you could simply use "fishplates" which allow the thing to move a bit so that the plates are fixed through the top (say) but with slots allowing movement for the bottom piece.

I wd bet that theres some gunk there that stops the hole taking up and it could be that the weight and/or resistance of the steel (the bottom of that t-section) whilst underway actually caused them to part. I might try and dry the whole lot out, jack it all up a bit to eliminate the crack, then bolt pieces of hardwood either side of the existing wood to thicken the vertuical section which elimnates the "t"-shape and the tendency for the crack to reappear.

 

[finnlou]

Re: DIY not an option?

[ QUOTE ]
what about cleaning the crack up. Bung in some epoxy [when the weather has eventually reached 15C+] jack up the keel to fit in a couple of places and Bobs your uncle?
the iron work looks like a sacrificial strip.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, that was my initial thought, I was just worried incase it should be bolted, but I can see no sign that it was previously, so was ging to do exactly as you suggested and glue it then jackup it up while the glue sets. The metal strip is as you say just a sacrificial strip to prevent damage to the boat as it is sat on hard ground most of the time.
I was merely after opinions as to the merits of a repair or whether people thought the whole strip (wood not metal) would need removing/replacing,

 

[hlb]

Re: DIY not an option?

Cant see any sort of glue doing the job, everything will be pissed wet through. If the gap will close up. Drll it and put in some coach screws or whatever the nautical equivalent.

 

[finnlou]

Re: DIY not an option?

tcm,

yes, sorry, probably a bit touchy, I wasn't asking because I doubted my DIY skills, just my knowledge of boats /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I wasn't sp much a question of how to fix it, more a "can it be fixed"

your suggestion of
[ QUOTE ]
I might try and dry the whole lot out, jack it all up a bit to eliminate the crack, then bolt pieces of hardwood either side of the existing wood to thicken the vertuical section which elimnates the "t"-shape and the tendency for the crack to reappear.

[/ QUOTE ]
sounds like a good idea, my main concern was that if I glued it back together would it just come apart because of the weight, your idea should prevent that.

my appologies for being so touchy.

 

[duncan]

Re: DIY not an option?

i'm with hlb in my analysis - whilst it is entirely possible to glue a piece of wood back together so that it stronger than before, and therefore unecessary to replace, I would have severe doubts over the ability to do this to anything other than very clean, dry timber. At the very least this probably means removing the metal and split off section of the wood entirely to degrease/desalt unless someone knows of a product that could be sprayed on/washed off to do this before then drying out thoroughly? Glue wise you are looking at a professional product that can flex and expand/contract with the timber.
Have to say that replacing looks almost a cheaper/easier option even going the diy route.

 

[finnlou]

Re: DIY not an option?

The timber did look very clean which is why my suspicion is that it was done when the boat was being lifted out of the water, it just looked far too clean and fresh to have been sat in the water for 6 months in the rising and falling tide, almost like it had only just happened (I was not there when the boat was lifted) I did not think to check for wetness at the time, but will do when I go down at the weekend.

I have some extraphen which should be able to handle the glueing job, but obviously if the consensus would be to replace the whole strip rather than repair it, then that is probably what I will do, that would involve getting the boat lifted again so would be a lot more hassle obviously.

 

[Dave99]

Re: DIY not an option?

is it rotting? It did look like metal

 

[sofka]

Re: DIY not an option?

I agree about the timber needing to be dry. You could oak dowel joint through the keel timbers to reinforce the glue line? Put the dowels in diagonaly and oppose them so that they function as dovetails. Boat is going to need to be out for some time to dry out though.

 

[finnlou]

Re: DIY not an option?

Thanks for all the advice everyone, I now at least have a few ideas to look into, will let you know how I get on.

 

[Grajan]

Re: DIY not an option?

Looks like the lower piece of timber has been a wooden "doubler" to be used as a sacrificial keel then someone has decided to fit a steel rubbing band and attached it with cheek plates.
The proper way to fix would be to remove the steel rubbing band refasten timber with silicon bronze screws then re bolt the rubbing band using heavy galvanized bolts (not sheradised)a probable reason for this happening is that rust has built up round the rubbing band bolts and acted like a row of wedges in the joint line

 

[david_bagshaw]

I would ask the yard where they put the lifting straps as it looks as if the vesel has been sagged by the lifting straps being too near the bow & stern. Does the yard have experiance in dealing with wooden boats. (something becoming a problem today)

Have any inside timbers / bulkheads been removed?

where is she proped under the keel now?


the caulking in the photo is reasonable though.