Keel Choice

[NBDS]

We are planning to buy a Sadler 34 and are debating the pros and cons of deep versus shallow fin keels.

Clearly the deep fin gives the best overall performance and stiffness but reviews suggest the impact of a shallow fin is relatively small.

If you were sailing in a Sadler 34 and didn’t know when you got into the boat whether it was a deep or shallow fin could you tell very easily just by the way she sailed which it was and if you were sailing in a shallow fin would you prefer to be a in deep fin version?

We are concerned about boat speed only to the extent of getting somewhere efficiently (with no interest in racing) but safety is obviously a priority and knowing that a boat that can handle whatever the weather throws at us and stay on track well is important too. Would we be just as safe in a shallow fin 34?

The boat would be based in Chichester Harbour and sailed mainly in the Solent and across the Channel.

Any illuminating thoughts or the benefits of experience would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Evadne]

As someone who also sails from Chichester harbour, I can tell you that you will more often appreciate a shallow draught than a few percent better performance to windward. Although by my standards the Sadler is a large, modern, lightweight design I don't think either version will give cause for concern unless you're trying to sail across the bar into gale force conditions. We draw 4' 2", and that is more than deep enough: there have been several occasions when I would have been pleased to knock eight inches off that, as I could have got into or out of the creek an hour earlier.

 

[Robin]

Welcome to the forums.

I think it would only be obvious if the two were sailing in company. I would expect the deeper fin to be a bit faster to windward, possibly pointing a little higher or going a little faster and making a little less leeway. The difference would only be obvious over a longer trip and probably would be overshadowed anyway by other factors like how clean the bottom was, 3 bladed v 2 bladed v folding/feathering prop, how good the sails are and especially how well they are trimmed.

For the kind of sailing you propose I would find the best example that fits your price bracket and go with whichever keel it has. Otherwise given 2 available and otherwise identical boats I would pick the deeper fin.

 

[fireball]

With a 6' keel I would happily recommend the shorter keel for Chi harbour .. LWS is tight in places - although we do not go aground in our channel ...
Now sat in the marina our access is far more limited - about 3 hours either side of low water (give or take) - and we're stuck ... even missed out a trip because of it /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

However, if you're going to be off and about far more than in and around then the characteristics of the keel become far more important than a lost 1/2hr waiting for enough water .... unless where you're going has similar restrictions!!

 

[richardabeattie]

Twin keels gives you the tremendous advantage of beng able to dry out in shallow harbours and for maintenance

 

[DJE]

Welcome to the forum. Unless you knew one version of the boat already I doubt if you could tell from on deck which type of keel was underneath. There is a good article about keels on Sadlers here. You will also find lots more information about Sadlers on Mike Lucas' Site and the Owners Association Site. Either version of the Sadler 34 will be more than capable of the type of cruising you envisage but you will find the shallower draft very useful around the Solent, and especially if you venture down to Poole. You will have more options in the crowded anchorages.
Have you considered the twin keel option? Comparable performance to the shallow fin and the very useful ability to take the ground.

 

[homa]

One thing to consider with twin keels is that if you inadvertently run aground it can be a bit more challenging to refloat. Cannot easily heel boat (as for a single fin).
Just a thought.

Pro's are that you can dry out relatively easily and have a much shallower draft, I don't think the performance is so bad for the modern twin keeler these days.

 

[vyv_cox]

Welcome, both to the forums and to Sadlers.

I have owned a shallow fin Sadler34 for the past 11 years, cruised from the Baltic to Sardinia during this period with extensive periods in and around Holland, where the water tends to be pretty shallow, especially in the north. I have also traversed the whole of the Staandemastroute canals in Holland, and the Canal du Midi, both of which would have been far more problematic or impossible with the deep fin version.

My first point would be whether you are talking about a pre-1988 or post 1988 boat? The keel design was changed at about this time, making a big difference to stiffness, both in the deep or shallow versions. Incidentally the twin keel 34s are very rare indeed, I believe the total production run was in single figures. My boat was made in 1985 and has the original keel, although it is possible to upgrade.

Assuming the same sails, I believe that we point as high as a deep fin 34 but we lose a little more on leeway. We regularly raced another 34 in Holland, his being a deep fin with slightly worse sails, and performance of the two boats was almost identical in every respect. This took place inland: I would expect the difference to be more noticeable with much longer tacks on the sea.

Downwind the shallow fin seems to have the edge in stronger winds, standing up to canvas very well and sailing very comfortably. The 34 has an excellent reputation for seaworthiness and coping with adverse conditions, which I can only echo. We have been out in some pretty nasty conditions from time to time but we have never feared that the boat would let us down.

I have never actually sailed a deep fin version but I suspect that it would be very difficult to detect a difference from mine simply by sailing. That said, everything I read about the Stephen Jones post-1988 keel suggests that it transforms the boat. It must be something miraculous, as I find my version to be just about perfect!

 

[kengill]

The best keel I've seen for the 34 is the tandem Scheel Keel as fitted to Tanui at Titchmarsh Marina, Walton-on-the-Naze.

Sits on the sand perfectly on the large wing plate, appears to float on wet grass!!

Also goes pretty quick.

 

[Lakesailor]

As an aside. Does the keel configuration change the motion of a boat? All else being equal. For instance when at anchor, or when running.

 

[Marsupial]

undoubtedly in my experience the motion of a deep vs shallow keel version of the same yacht is very different. The shallow keel is “more frantic” seems to have less grip on the sea. When I ordered my latest boat I opted for the deep keel there is no contest (IMHO) – another plus I hadn’t fully appreciated is the rudder, on the shallow keel version they just cut half a metre off the standard rudder reducing your ability to manoeuvre at a stroke!

 

[DJE]

[ QUOTE ]
on the shallow keel version they just cut half a metre off the standard rudder reducing your ability to manoeuvre at a stroke!

[/ QUOTE ] Not all builders! In the article that I quoted above one of the tests was turning circle ahead and astern and the tightest turning circle was achieved by the twin keel boat.

 

[Searush]

[ QUOTE ]
One thing to consider with twin keels is that if you inadvertently run aground it can be a bit more challenging to refloat. Cannot easily heel boat (as for a single fin).
(cut)

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, no it's not. You simply put the kettle on & wait for the tide to come back in! Dead easy, very comfortable & safe - assuming you haven't been daft enough to cut corners on a lee shore with a falling tide & rising breeze!

Read recent post about helicopter rescue for fin keeler accidentally stranded. Crew had to abandon boat & wait on shore (very cold & exposed) because of risk of boat falling over. Fin keelers dried out on their side generally rise with the tide, but sometimes they just fill and sink! I know which I prefer!

 

[kengill]

When I spoke to the owner about his keel he said it made the boat feel like a much larger boat as it damped pitch and heave motions considerably.

Also it has a high stiffness because so much weight is concentrated in the plate apparently