keel bolts and mast

jfkal

jfkal

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Want to change keel bolts and seal the hull-keel joint in the process.
Yard tells me that in order to do that the mast has to come off?
We are neither in a storm no earth quake prone part of the world.
Any thoughts on this, I hate being taken for a ride by the yard?
Thanks,.
 
jfkal said:
Want to change keel bolts and seal the hull-keel joint in the process.
Yard tells me that in order to do that the mast has to come off?
We are neither in a storm no earth quake prone part of the world.
Any thoughts on this, I hate being taken for a ride by the yard?
Thanks,.
Click to expand...

Because all the rigging loads are transferred by the compression post to the keel, or at least the hull area to which the keel is bolted ??

But why not ask the yard why it is necessary
 
jfkal said:
Want to change keel bolts and seal the hull-keel joint in the process.
Yard tells me that in order to do that the mast has to come off?
We are neither in a storm no earth quake prone part of the world.
Any thoughts on this, I hate being taken for a ride by the yard?
Thanks,.
Click to expand...

If the mast is keel-stepped it's likely to be necessary, but it's probably forced on the yard by HSE requirements.
Have you been advised by a survey that this is a must?
The alternative is to do the job yourself.
 
Are all the keel bolts fully accessible with the mast up? On mine the front two keel bolts are partially hidden by the bottom of the mast.
 
Risk assessment probably shows as not insignificant and there is relatively simple mitigating action. A blustery f4 or f5 could put quite a torque load against the mast and with the ~40% of the mass of your boat missing that is there to counteract this it is probably a reasonable step to take. If it is not down and something happens will you just shrug your shoulders and say that it was worth the risk? I presume your boat will be within 10 to 15m of other boats so impact may not just affect you. I am sure insurers would also have a field day if something did happen because the mast was up. Alternative is the yard have to do the work when conditions are right so may have to chop and change their schedule. May impact other users who are working to timings and yard would add costs of having to work like that to all your bills. So long way of saying I think it is reasonable.
 
They say it may topple.
Btw the rigging load is transferred to the hull and not the keel, which, if the boat is not in the yard hanging off the hull unless grounded on a rock
 
If they are dropping the keel they may well have to use considerable force to detach the keel from the bottom of the boat so better to remove the mast to reduce weight and make the hull more stable when suspended.
 
I have seen it done at the boatyard where I have mine lifted.

However, although the mast is not removed, the boats are lifted and hung from a specially built massive cradle leaving the keel clear off the ground so that it can be lowered for removal and for making good and resealing the joint. Note that for "massive", think substantial RSJs and not the usual rig incorporating Acrow supports. Without such a set-up I would suggest that removal of the mast would be a must.
 
I can see many reasons why unstepping the mast is in everybody's interests. The stability of the boat in a cradle with the keel removed is seriously compromised and with a gusty wind there is little to resisit it taking a tumble, though as the whole load is now taken between four points on the hull rather than the majority being on the keel, you may suffer structural damage even if she doesn't fall. A more substantial cradle will do little if anything to counter these problems. It would be more effective to run lines from the toerail to ground anchors and halyards too if the mast were still stepped.

As mentioned in an earlier post, taking the rigging strains off the hull will also help in getting a good fit when the keel is re-attached.

Look on it as an opportunity to give the masthead gear a thorough overhaul!

Rob.
 
rob2 said:
A more substantial cradle will do little if anything to counter these problems. It would be more effective to run lines from the toerail to ground anchors and halyards too if the mast were still stepped.
Click to expand...

The "substantial cradle" that I mentioned included base components that extended horizontally well outside the beam of the boat and the boat was strapped across the deck to the cradle itself in several areas. This renders the whole assembly into one, heavy and stable, unit that would be very difficult to topple.
 
Ah, yes. That in effect puts us in absolute agreement. Another option would be to build a scaffold over the deck with the horizontal pole tightly secured to strong points close to the toerail. This can also be done with the boat standing on its keel to allow access to the entire hull surface, useful when epoxy coating and antifouling.

Rob
 
When yachts are commissioned the keel goes on first - I don't think that is an accident.

But round here - keels come off quite frequently, usually large racing yachts. The keels come off with the mast up. But the yard does all the work with lots of props or cradles and it is not prolonged. Keel off, whatever work is needed is done, keel back on. All during the 8 hour day. But if its keel stepped, different story, if the work has to take days - I do not know.

But removing a keel is not for an amateur - you need a lot of kit to do it and many hands. You also need to know what you are doing. I guess therefore the yard are doing the work and my guess is they know what is involved. But there are many yards in Singapore that could do the work - ask around.

Jonathan
 
We would not drop a keel without dropping the rig first.
Yes we would change keel bolts one at a time if they would spin out ok but for the sake of a couple of hours to drop the rig, especially in a keel stepped rig, we simply wouldn't do it.
 
All noted with thanks. However there are only two yards who would handle GRP vessels here, the rest deals with heavy steel welding and oil rig service. Not a nice neighbourhood. The others need to bring in a crane twice at a huge cost. Sorry for the whining but it is really expensive. But all the argument for it are duly noted.
 
Yes. European boats going to Oz for example are shipped without keel as shipping is by cube. Within Europe transport by road is limited by height and many of the modern deep keel boats over about 45' are shipped without keels. The launch of my new boat was delayed for an hour or so at Hamble Point as the crew were fitting a keel to a big new Hanse.
 
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