Little Rascal
Well-Known Member
These are all sit-on-tops. Not sea kayaks as such. Not rollable in most cases, though you have possible a chance of climbing back on. Far more vulnerable to wash.
Kayaks in the solent and inshore
- Thread starter DAKA
- Start date
These are all sit-on-tops. Not sea kayaks as such. Not rollable in most cases, though you have possible a chance of climbing back on. Far more vulnerable to wash.
Searush
Well-Known Member
This sit-on surf ski can be rolled. It has a seat belt & foot loops. But it has too little bouancy for tubby old me.
AdeOlly
Well-Known Member
I think a light flourescent burgee on a whippy grp rod might be useful, but if you can't see a 20' brightly coloured boat with a 13st bloke in a brightly coloured Bouancy aid waving a 6' paddle around, how the Flick will you see a 6" square bit of cloth on a stick?
On the other hand if said 13st bloke is in a dark green boat wearing a dark blue buoyancy aid and hidden by the chop in the middle of the shipping lane, a couple of sqft of brightly coloured cloth on a stick just might save an accident
Little Rascal
Well-Known Member
The main problem with sit on tops is that they are mostly designed for good initial stability - great for flat water but not so good in waves.
Searush
Well-Known Member
True, but that's a Wave-ski with sharp edges designed for surfing.
However, I agree in general that sit-ons are often bought by novices who think it is "safer" to not be "trapped" in a kayak with a spray deck. They, like the inflatable ones, are seen as a cheap & easy way onto the water. In such cases they can be really dangerous.
Little Rascal
Well-Known Member
Sorry Sea Rush - those comments were not directed at your ski. I was really refering to wide, 'stable' boats that feel reassuring to beginners but tend to tip them out on the face of a wave.
I think the point I shall take from this thread is to take visibilty even more seriously.
But equally motor boats should take from it the need to keep a better look out. If there are kayaks out there, then it's your responsibility to avoid a collision whatever your views.
I think the point I shall take from this thread is to take visibilty even more seriously.
But equally motor boats should take from it the need to keep a better look out. If there are kayaks out there, then it's your responsibility to avoid a collision whatever your views.
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
If you are going to educate us, why stop there
Why not add that you would just like to completely dismiss any idea that a sea kayak is in some way a seaworthy boat capable of taking on white water rapids as well.
That would be a completely different design, shorter, shallow draft easy to turn on a sixpence.
Sea kayak, longer, deeper V, deeper draft, long turning circle that wouldnt last two minutes surfing in Cornwall as that is yet another design, flat with a skeg.
Nonsense. Sea kayaks are quite capable of handling surf (try Googling 'Sea Kayak Surf' images) or other white water at sea, including tidal rapids. Yes, there are specialist surf kayaks for those that ONLY want to play in surf, but so what?
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
So what you are saying is that it's acceptable to mow down people who are hard to see? So Cyclists, pedestrians & dogs are fair game when driving a fast car because you don't want to slow down?
Do you get extra points for running over motorway workers?
If i was to run down a cyclist, in the dark, with no lights and wearing dark clothing, i doubt i'd be prosecuted.
I don't have to drive my car around at 6 miles an hour in a 50 MPH zone just in case some nob is riding his bike with no lights, or someones black labradour is out after dark.
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
I've surfed in a GP canoe very successfully. Trying to categorise one or another type, when they all perform in different situations very well. The GP was a hoot in steep waves with no spray cover and I took water on board, as it turned extremely quickly up the wave, and I left the top of the wave with the stern completely clear of the top of the wave (according to people on shore spectating). A bit of a difficult balancing act with that much water in the stern once I'd launched up the wave and landed on the far side, but a great hoot!
Canoes and kayaks are great, and they will all do things way beyond their speciality.
Canoes and kayaks are great, and they will all do things way beyond their speciality.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Precisely and even if you creep about at 6 kts, commercial vessels won't so even if you don't mow him down, somebody else will
oldgit
Well-Known Member
"I think a light flourescent burgee on a whippy grp rod might be useful"
Searush,it not the "do it properly" bunch with experience and awareness who will be the problem.
All the canoes/kayaks I have ever seen down here have been very hard to spot .They mainly appear as momentary black or brown dot in the distance as they breast the top of a wave.Some sort of marker would def help to spot them in the first place.I always ride my motor bike with the lights on and many cyclists have a little flag on a stick to ensure cars give them a wide berth.It would be nice for kayakers to take the same precautions.
Have first hand experience of the problems of sea kayaking,was part of a large group caught by an offshore wind which resulted in the coastguard calling out a helicopter,it even made the national press.
This was by the way in 1963 off the north Kent coast. !
Searush,it not the "do it properly" bunch with experience and awareness who will be the problem.
All the canoes/kayaks I have ever seen down here have been very hard to spot .They mainly appear as momentary black or brown dot in the distance as they breast the top of a wave.Some sort of marker would def help to spot them in the first place.I always ride my motor bike with the lights on and many cyclists have a little flag on a stick to ensure cars give them a wide berth.It would be nice for kayakers to take the same precautions.
Have first hand experience of the problems of sea kayaking,was part of a large group caught by an offshore wind which resulted in the coastguard calling out a helicopter,it even made the national press.
This was by the way in 1963 off the north Kent coast. !
DAKA
Well-Known Member
I've surfed in a GP canoe very successfully. Trying to categorise one or another type, when they all perform in different situations very well. The GP was a hoot in steep waves with no spray cover and I took water on board, as it turned extremely quickly up the wave, and I left the top of the wave with the stern completely clear of the top of the wave (according to people on shore spectating). A bit of a difficult balancing act with that much water in the stern once I'd launched up the wave and landed on the far side, but a great hoot!
Canoes and kayaks are great, and they will all do things way beyond their speciality.
The only speciality the GP can claim is one of versatility.
It is specifically designed not to be good at anything but to be able to do anything recreationally.
I am sure you had a great time in moderate waves but would have been in danger well before the specialists canoes would have stopped enjoying themselves.
Out of interest what is the furthest you have managed to paddle out in one, even a fit canoeist would be knackered after 1 nm in one which would barely be outside the harbour.
EDIT
Sorry Brendan, on second thoughts I agree your post makes a good point , one could paddle out a few hundred meters, get in the current and drift into the shipping lanes while fishing, wait for the tide to change and drift back in, this could account why these things are being seen so far out.
This is a bit of a deviation from the threads point but I am happy to stand by my comments which where specifically aimed at the comments made that sea kayaks were substantially safer than a 36ft mobo
.If there was any chance of a sea kayaker actually reading this thread I would go to the trouble to post details of a radar reflector that is upright even when capsized that wouldnt interfere with a roll .
Basically a tube on a weighted short pole on a spindle at the rear.
Last edited:
Searush
Well-Known Member
Nah, that's not a caonoeist, it was the ghost of Blondie Hasler reliveing his Cockleshell Heroes raid.
I've never seen a dark green sea kayak, perhaps it was specially painted to ambush you?
DAKA
Well-Known Member
I've never seen a dark green sea kayak, perhaps it was specially painted to ambush you?
This type of fishing sea kayak will not Eskimo roll and would benefit from a radar reflector.
Alright there may be one or two who could manage it but not with fishing rods stuck out !
Little Rascal
Well-Known Member
Firstly kayak design:
Virtually anything can be 'surfed' in the sense of planing down the face of a wave, as long as you can catch the wave (whitewater boats often too slow) and stay on the wave (seakayaks often too fast). If you want to surf for real, like the boardies, then you need a dedicated surf kayak with a flat bottom, no rocker to speak of, with sharp rails and a skeg for carving turns.
Secondly kayak safety:
Comparison of a sea kayak to a mobo is clearly impossible. The point I made was to counter the idea that people shouldn't be offshore in sea kayaks because they might tip over and drown at any minute. A proper sea kayak in the right hands is quite at home in conditions that would capsize, overwhelm or smash to bits any motor boat. If you doubt it watch this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCCe4HahCLI
No one would be stupid enough to claim that a paddler is not limited by their strength, stamina and preparation.
I would exclude sit-on-tops and fishing kayaks from the above. In my view they have no place 'offshore' or in shipping channel/lanes or in rough water. If such is to be found drifting and camouflaged in the Solent, then I understand your concerns.
Thirdly visibility and radar:
As I mentioned radar reflectors have been tried in the past. They have not proved to be very effective although I guess every little helps.
Discussion here:
www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/forum/v...&start=0&sid=bb1ff241a759343f89650779194e8055
Test report here:
www.maineseakayakguides.com/radar_report.pdf
It seems that kayaks are pretty much invisible to radar up to half a mile away. But then small mobos/yachts have the same problem of boosting cross section so it's no suprise.
I would be interested to see your idea DAKA...
Virtually anything can be 'surfed' in the sense of planing down the face of a wave, as long as you can catch the wave (whitewater boats often too slow) and stay on the wave (seakayaks often too fast). If you want to surf for real, like the boardies, then you need a dedicated surf kayak with a flat bottom, no rocker to speak of, with sharp rails and a skeg for carving turns.
Secondly kayak safety:
Comparison of a sea kayak to a mobo is clearly impossible. The point I made was to counter the idea that people shouldn't be offshore in sea kayaks because they might tip over and drown at any minute. A proper sea kayak in the right hands is quite at home in conditions that would capsize, overwhelm or smash to bits any motor boat. If you doubt it watch this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCCe4HahCLI
No one would be stupid enough to claim that a paddler is not limited by their strength, stamina and preparation.
I would exclude sit-on-tops and fishing kayaks from the above. In my view they have no place 'offshore' or in shipping channel/lanes or in rough water. If such is to be found drifting and camouflaged in the Solent, then I understand your concerns.
Thirdly visibility and radar:
As I mentioned radar reflectors have been tried in the past. They have not proved to be very effective although I guess every little helps.
Discussion here:
www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/forum/v...&start=0&sid=bb1ff241a759343f89650779194e8055
Test report here:
www.maineseakayakguides.com/radar_report.pdf
It seems that kayaks are pretty much invisible to radar up to half a mile away. But then small mobos/yachts have the same problem of boosting cross section so it's no suprise.
I would be interested to see your idea DAKA...
Last edited:
Little Rascal
Well-Known Member
Nah, that's not a caonoeist, it was the ghost of Blondie Hasler reliveing his Cockleshell Heroes raid.
I've never seen a dark green sea kayak, perhaps it was specially painted to ambush you?
hahahaha
Better start checking your boats bottoms for mines!
DAKA
Well-Known Member
I expected that we were talking at crossed purposes.
Great video , waves look big at the side of a kayak but are 3ft-5ft, thats 20-22 knot comfort in most boats.
The only reason the waves are breaking are due to the shallows, of course a mobo will sustain damage if you run it aground.
I have been in similar wave/waves in a 23ft boat , it was very tame, there wasnt a splash over the top.
The wave/waves I am comparing to is the Trent tidal bore, we played in it until we got fed up.
In the main you are talking about experienced sea kayakers who have been crossing shipping lanes in groups in communication with VTS for years, I dont have an issue with them although I am sure VTS arent impressed.
This post was really aimed at how to deal and look out for the pricks who buy a Kayak from Argos and let it drift into danger .
Little Rascal
Well-Known Member
Then I share your concerns.
Its people like that who lead to calls for licensing and regulation...
Ps give me a call next time you head out to play in a spring rate race like the bitches or penryn mawr...
Last edited:
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
With apologies to just about everyone:
Mobo-ing along the Solent coast,
On the good ship Felix under Captain Dak.
Mobo-ing along the Solent coast,
Always going forward 'cos we can’t go back.
Lt. Uhura, report.
There's kayaks on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow;
there's kayaks on the starboard bow, starboard bow, Dak.
Analysis, Mr. Spock.
It's life, Dak, but not as we know it, not as we know it, not as we know it;
it's life, Dak, but not as we know it, not as we know it, Captain.
There's kayaks on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow;
there's kayaks on the starboard bow, starboard bow, Dak.
Mobo-ing along the Solent coast,
On the good ship Felix under Captain Dak.
Mobo-ing along the Solent coast,
Always going forward, still we can’t go back.
Medical update, Dr. McCoy.
It's worse than that, he's dead, Dak, dead, Dak, dead, Dak;
it's worse than that, he's dead, Dak, dead, Dak, dead.
It's life, Dak, but not as we know it, not as we know it, not as we know it;
it's life, Dak, but not as we know it, not as we know it, Captain.
There's kayaks on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow;
there's kayaks on the starboard bow, starboard bow, Dak.
Mobo Captain, James T. Dak:
Ah! We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, shoot to kill;
we come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, men.
There's kayaks on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow;
there's kayaks on the starboard bow, scrape 'em off, Dak.
Mobo-ing along the Solent coast,
On the good ship Felix under Captain Dak.
Mobo-ing along the Solent coast,
Only going forward, now we really can’t go back!
Engineer, Mr. Scott:
Ye cannot change the laws of physics, laws of physics, laws of physics;
ye cannot change the laws of physics, laws of physics, Dak.
Ah! We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, shoot to kill;
we come in peace, shoot to kill; Scotty, beam me up!
Mobo-ing along the Solent coast,
On the good ship Felix under Captain Dak.
Mobo-ing along the Solent coast,
Always going forward 'cos we can’t go back.
Lt. Uhura, report.
There's kayaks on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow;
there's kayaks on the starboard bow, starboard bow, Dak.
Analysis, Mr. Spock.
It's life, Dak, but not as we know it, not as we know it, not as we know it;
it's life, Dak, but not as we know it, not as we know it, Captain.
There's kayaks on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow;
there's kayaks on the starboard bow, starboard bow, Dak.
Mobo-ing along the Solent coast,
On the good ship Felix under Captain Dak.
Mobo-ing along the Solent coast,
Always going forward, still we can’t go back.
Medical update, Dr. McCoy.
It's worse than that, he's dead, Dak, dead, Dak, dead, Dak;
it's worse than that, he's dead, Dak, dead, Dak, dead.
It's life, Dak, but not as we know it, not as we know it, not as we know it;
it's life, Dak, but not as we know it, not as we know it, Captain.
There's kayaks on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow;
there's kayaks on the starboard bow, starboard bow, Dak.
Mobo Captain, James T. Dak:
Ah! We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, shoot to kill;
we come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, men.
There's kayaks on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow;
there's kayaks on the starboard bow, scrape 'em off, Dak.
Mobo-ing along the Solent coast,
On the good ship Felix under Captain Dak.
Mobo-ing along the Solent coast,
Only going forward, now we really can’t go back!
Engineer, Mr. Scott:
Ye cannot change the laws of physics, laws of physics, laws of physics;
ye cannot change the laws of physics, laws of physics, Dak.
Ah! We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, shoot to kill;
we come in peace, shoot to kill; Scotty, beam me up!
Last edited:
Searush
Well-Known Member
So the choice is to run them down or try to spot them & go round them then?
Problems are almost always caused by inexperienced plonkers (eg taking overloaded & underpowered boats across busy shipping lanes in another thread) not much you can do about them really if they don't do basic research or listen to advice - or are you jumping on the silly "license them" bandwagon?
