Searush
Well-Known Member
I'm sure you know there is a million miles between the blow-up toys & a sea kayak capable of open sea crossings in the right hands. So I shall ignore that.
Kayaks in the solent and inshore
- Thread starter DAKA
- Start date
I'm sure you know there is a million miles between the blow-up toys & a sea kayak capable of open sea crossings in the right hands. So I shall ignore that.
Little Rascal
Well-Known Member
FAR more seaworthy than any motorboat
....so you are out there and you are tired and cold and a long way offshore perhaps having lost your single method of propulsion.
S,pose you can always go below, turn on the Eberspacher,put the kettle on rustle up a corn beef hash and wait for rescue just like a motor boat.
I'm afraid you are merely displaying your ignorance.
Sea kayaks have limitations just as any small boat. Any person on a small boat who doesnt dress appropriately and consider their physical limitations is taking a big risk.
I think you'll find that most sea kayakers plan their trips and consider the consequences of the unforseen far more than those who rely on cabin heaters and engines and corn beef hash.
iangrant
Well-Known Member
So
It's OK to ignore them in the Solent then because they can't be there?
It's OK to ignore them in the Solent then because they can't be there?
oldgit
Well-Known Member
"Kayaks have crossed the Irish Sea & circumnavigated the UK. Don't think that they are just inshore toys."
So have windsurfers/jetskiers and people in baths.
and small boats precious little bigger have gone across the worlds oceans.Not just done a few hops with a nice B&B at each end.
"Marcus likes to thank the countless people he met along the way who helped to make this expedition to make a success, and who brightened his day after a rainy day, or a day full of headwinds by opening their homes and refridgerators for Marcus."
Bathtub http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/09/02/first-man-to-cross-irish-sea-ina-bathtub-motorboat/
Swim http://www.scottishswimming.com/index.php?id=336
Surf http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/cumbria/hi/people_and_places/newsid_8937000/8937249.stm
Ryanair even does it.
So have windsurfers/jetskiers and people in baths.
and small boats precious little bigger have gone across the worlds oceans.Not just done a few hops with a nice B&B at each end.
"Marcus likes to thank the countless people he met along the way who helped to make this expedition to make a success, and who brightened his day after a rainy day, or a day full of headwinds by opening their homes and refridgerators for Marcus."
Bathtub http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/09/02/first-man-to-cross-irish-sea-ina-bathtub-motorboat/
Swim http://www.scottishswimming.com/index.php?id=336
Surf http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/cumbria/hi/people_and_places/newsid_8937000/8937249.stm
Ryanair even does it.
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Little Rascal
Well-Known Member
I feel I ought to add, I've never met an unfriendly motor boater in my sea kayak yet. Most seem to quite like stopping for a chat.
Also clearly a kayaker is limited by his physical ability and his exposure to cold much more so than a boat with a cabin.
But don't dismiss us too quickly - when your engine fails and you find yourself swept into the nearest tide race with 8ft breaking waves or some hideous rocky shoreline or surf beach, you'll probably find me or one of my mates quite at home and having a whale of a time!
Just watch out for the sit-on-tops and the kayak fishers though!
Also clearly a kayaker is limited by his physical ability and his exposure to cold much more so than a boat with a cabin.
But don't dismiss us too quickly - when your engine fails and you find yourself swept into the nearest tide race with 8ft breaking waves or some hideous rocky shoreline or surf beach, you'll probably find me or one of my mates quite at home and having a whale of a time!
Just watch out for the sit-on-tops and the kayak fishers though!
oldgit
Well-Known Member
"But don't dismiss us too quickly"
just having a bit of fun at your expense,but the idea of being able to see you would be very useful and small whip mast with a dayglow burgee or even isophase led light would be blimming useful.Esp in choppy conditions and just to get things into proportion we have a genuine venetian gondola down here on the Medway which has been seen out in some less than calm conditions.
just having a bit of fun at your expense,but the idea of being able to see you would be very useful and small whip mast with a dayglow burgee or even isophase led light would be blimming useful.Esp in choppy conditions and just to get things into proportion we have a genuine venetian gondola down here on the Medway which has been seen out in some less than calm conditions.
Little Rascal
Well-Known Member
No probs. Just trying to make it clear that kayaking has it's competents and incompetents just like motorboating.
The Irish sea is just a long day out nowadays!
http://www.rnli.org.uk/who_we_are/press_centre/news_releases/news_release_detail?articleid=461169
DAKA
Well-Known Member
I feel I ought to add, I've never met an unfriendly motor boater in my sea kayak yet. Most seem to quite like stopping for a chat.
Also clearly a kayaker is limited by his physical ability and his exposure to cold much more so than a boat with a cabin.
But don't dismiss us too quickly - when your engine fails and you find yourself swept into the nearest tide race with 8ft breaking waves or some hideous rocky shoreline or surf beach, you'll probably find me or one of my mates quite at home and having a whale of a time!
Just watch out for the sit-on-tops and the kayak fishers though!
If you are going to educate us, why stop there
Why not add that you would just like to completely dismiss any idea that a sea kayak is in some way a seaworthy boat capable of taking on white water rapids as well.
That would be a completely different design, shorter, shallow draft easy to turn on a sixpence.
Sea kayak, longer, deeper V, deeper draft, long turning circle that wouldnt last two minutes surfing in Cornwall as that is yet another design, flat with a skeg.
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iangrant
Well-Known Member
Regardless of
what shape colour, solid, blow up, fishing, rocks, rapids, they are paddling about in shipping lanes where never mind me at 12 tons there are ships doing 20 knots in the Solent, let alone the tugs like Thor and Trax that do wash like a tidal wave
Please whatever carved out log you are paddling be careful and don't stick yourselves in front of something that probably can't see you even in a 1/2 meter chop!
If you are going to educate us, why stop there
Why not add that you would just like to completely dismiss any idea that a sea kayak is in some way a seaworthy boat capable of taking on white water rapids as well.
That would be a completely different design, shorter, shallow draft easy to turn on a sixpence.
Sea kayak, longer, deeper V, deeper draft, long turning circle that wouldnt last two minutes surfing as that is yet another design, flat with a skeg.
what shape colour, solid, blow up, fishing, rocks, rapids, they are paddling about in shipping lanes where never mind me at 12 tons there are ships doing 20 knots in the Solent, let alone the tugs like Thor and Trax that do wash like a tidal wave
Please whatever carved out log you are paddling be careful and don't stick yourselves in front of something that probably can't see you even in a 1/2 meter chop!
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
I thought the point of the thread was to express some concern at the growing number of kayaks and canoes appearing offshsore ? I'm with DAKA, it is a concern that these are very hard to see and i don't want to be responsible for mowing one down or swamping one etc.
It isn't a case of how sea worthy they are or how some versions are more sea worthy than others, it's a case of how damn hard they are to see. Anyone who says that i should slow down to such a speed that i can see them (in open water), can go forth and multiply. I don't consider it my place, or duty, to creep about at 6 knots in open water, just so some lunatic can paddle about in the shipping lanes in a canoe, with no consideration for whether he's visible or not.
If they won't make an effort to be seen, should we be expected to make an effort to keep an extraordinary watch for them ? We do of course keep a careful watch, including maintaining a radar watch in all conditions. Should we see one we would give it as wide a berth as possible/practical. But, shouldn't they be required to make themselves as easy to see as possible ? I like the idea of the whip with a flag on top.
It isn't a case of how sea worthy they are or how some versions are more sea worthy than others, it's a case of how damn hard they are to see. Anyone who says that i should slow down to such a speed that i can see them (in open water), can go forth and multiply. I don't consider it my place, or duty, to creep about at 6 knots in open water, just so some lunatic can paddle about in the shipping lanes in a canoe, with no consideration for whether he's visible or not.
If they won't make an effort to be seen, should we be expected to make an effort to keep an extraordinary watch for them ? We do of course keep a careful watch, including maintaining a radar watch in all conditions. Should we see one we would give it as wide a berth as possible/practical. But, shouldn't they be required to make themselves as easy to see as possible ? I like the idea of the whip with a flag on top.
iangrant
Well-Known Member
And for the kinky ones......
But, shouldn't they be required to make themselves as easy to see as possible ? I like the idea of the whip with a flag on top.[/QUOTE]
...... a flag with a whip on top?
Sorry couldn't resist that one
But, shouldn't they be required to make themselves as easy to see as possible ? I like the idea of the whip with a flag on top.[/QUOTE]
...... a flag with a whip on top?
Sorry couldn't resist that one
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
...... a flag with a whip on top?
Sorry couldn't resist that one[/QUOTE]
Which other forums are you a member of Ian ?
iangrant
Well-Known Member
Ah
Which other forums are you a member of Ian ?
[/QUOTE]
Ok Ok -
.................Kayak swingers
Which other forums are you a member of Ian ?
[/QUOTE]Ok Ok -
.................Kayak swingers
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
Which other forums are you a member of Ian ?
Ok Ok -
.................Kayak swingers[/QUOTE]
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Searush
Well-Known Member
So what you are saying is that it's acceptable to mow down people who are hard to see? So Cyclists, pedestrians & dogs are fair game when driving a fast car because you don't want to slow down? 
Do you get extra points for running over motorway workers?
Do you get extra points for running over motorway workers?
Little Rascal
Well-Known Member
Not sure it would be worth it...
... I've seen the way some of you mobos behave when I have been seen!
DAKA
Well-Known Member
So what you are saying is that it's acceptable to mow down people who are hard to see? So Cyclists, pedestrians & dogs are fair game when driving a fast car because you don't want to slow down?
Do you get extra points for running over motorway workers?
Come on searush, play fair no one is aiming for them, besides cylists have to have lights .
A flag on the end of the fishing rods would be a start and a radar reflector on a pole would be even better.
I used to be a qualified canoe Instructor (alright it wasnt a living, just a summer job) but I have no hesitation in recomending these .
Little Rascal
Well-Known Member
At least one book I have recommends the flag on a pole idea. If I was paddling in the Solent (I don't) I would seriously consider it myself. Derek Hutchison used radar reflecters on the first crossing of the North Sea but I don't think they were very effective. Reflective tape is a standard feature of sea-paddling clothing and buoyancy aids.
Kayakers at night should have headtorches but tend not have them on to preserve night vision. Collision flares also.
Most kayakers expect not to be seen and paddle 'defensively' in busy waters rather than expecting any favours from shipping. Especially as power boats can be heard along way off.
Searush
Well-Known Member
A radar reflector on a pole? You haven't really thought that thro have you?
As an SI, you will probably have been able to roll. Now imagine you are in a sea kayak & get caught unawares & capsize. Now try rolling with either a dihedral or echomax radar reflector on a stick!! I suppose one of the tiny useless ones would be acceptable, just a pity it wouldn't be seen by your radar! And what height would it need to be in order to be seen in wave clutter.
I think a light flourescent burgee on a whippy grp rod might be useful, but if you can't see a 20' brightly coloured boat with a 13st bloke in a brightly coloured Bouancy aid waving a 6' paddle around, how the Flick will you see a 6" square bit of cloth on a stick?
