ninky
Well-Known Member
not really. the M25 was designed for fast cars. the solent was not designed for mobos. those who want to whizz about superfast in pleasure craft should do so where there is less risk to other water users.
Kayaks in the solent and inshore
- Thread starter DAKA
- Start date
not really. the M25 was designed for fast cars. the solent was not designed for mobos. those who want to whizz about superfast in pleasure craft should do so where there is less risk to other water users.
ninky
Well-Known Member
watch out tomorrow - it seems there will be swimmers and kayaks in the solent.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248332
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248332
TeamSpirit
Well-Known Member
Sit on Kayaks are becoming very poplular in the Solent and are often used for fishing in the harbour entrances, we have one and occasionally use it as a tender. They are fairly stable and do not usually present any obstruction, most that we have come accross appear to be reasonably equiped and they are very manouverable and speedy to get out of the way if required. Most people seem take evasive actions and give a wide berth to them but the growing volumes may be of concern.
From a safety point of view I am more concerned with the number of irresponsible folks who swim long distances offshore without support boats and present very small targets and often wear dark swimming caps, I have come across several over the summer in the Solent and as far out as the forts ! My first experience I thought was a floating body !
They are significantly smaller than pot markers and almost impossible to see unless you are upon them. I am sure they are having a great time and are very fit but they seem completely unaware of the possible dangers.
A couple of months ago I found one swimmer at the mid markers of the submarine barrier swimming in the middle of the marks, just spotted him in time and managed to avoid him... He who values his life the least beware !
From a safety point of view I am more concerned with the number of irresponsible folks who swim long distances offshore without support boats and present very small targets and often wear dark swimming caps, I have come across several over the summer in the Solent and as far out as the forts ! My first experience I thought was a floating body !
They are significantly smaller than pot markers and almost impossible to see unless you are upon them. I am sure they are having a great time and are very fit but they seem completely unaware of the possible dangers.
A couple of months ago I found one swimmer at the mid markers of the submarine barrier swimming in the middle of the marks, just spotted him in time and managed to avoid him... He who values his life the least beware !
iangrant
Well-Known Member
Major Catastrophe
Well-Known Member
Whoever designed the Solent should be made to put it right.
Even worse, who approved the plans?
Searush
Well-Known Member
What a lot of predjudiced claptrap has been spouted on this thread. Quelle surprise!
Everyone has as much "right" to be on (or in) the water as people who have bought fast expensive MoBo's. The basic premise of Col Regs is to watch out for other water users. Even a swimmer, who might only have his head showing above water, is twice the size of potmarkers in our area, I'm surprised your pot markers are so big - perhaps it is a consequence of the poor watchkeeping on local boats?
I am lucky, I only travel at displacement speed or less, so people in the water are relatively easy to see/ avoid, or pick up. If I was driving at speed, I would need to keep a much better look out for my own safety & theirs. Perhaps your insulation from the wind & spry inside a plastic box makes you feel safe & makes you relax? I don't know, but I do know that when travelling fast in my car, or in crowded towns I need maximum concentration to keep safe.
You have an obligation not to endanger OTHER water users & treat people with respect. Please don't forget that.
Incidentally, the place where the above kayakers launched from was sheltered, but the winds were offshore. By the time they realised conditions were too bad, the most experienced member tried to get back to shore for help - and she was in a proper sea kayak. The others, quite correctly, rafted up for safety. They were lucky to get ashore, but in a rocky & isolated cove soem way away. There would probably have been no phone or VHF coverage, whether they had them or not. They believed their colleague had already got ashore & so did not raise the alarm until they got back to base & found that she had not returned. Please read the info before slagging people off as incompetents. Sure mistakes were made - but the death penalty is probably OTT, and ill-informed criticism is just insulting.
Everyone has as much "right" to be on (or in) the water as people who have bought fast expensive MoBo's. The basic premise of Col Regs is to watch out for other water users. Even a swimmer, who might only have his head showing above water, is twice the size of potmarkers in our area, I'm surprised your pot markers are so big - perhaps it is a consequence of the poor watchkeeping on local boats?
I am lucky, I only travel at displacement speed or less, so people in the water are relatively easy to see/ avoid, or pick up. If I was driving at speed, I would need to keep a much better look out for my own safety & theirs. Perhaps your insulation from the wind & spry inside a plastic box makes you feel safe & makes you relax? I don't know, but I do know that when travelling fast in my car, or in crowded towns I need maximum concentration to keep safe.
You have an obligation not to endanger OTHER water users & treat people with respect. Please don't forget that.
Incidentally, the place where the above kayakers launched from was sheltered, but the winds were offshore. By the time they realised conditions were too bad, the most experienced member tried to get back to shore for help - and she was in a proper sea kayak. The others, quite correctly, rafted up for safety. They were lucky to get ashore, but in a rocky & isolated cove soem way away. There would probably have been no phone or VHF coverage, whether they had them or not. They believed their colleague had already got ashore & so did not raise the alarm until they got back to base & found that she had not returned. Please read the info before slagging people off as incompetents. Sure mistakes were made - but the death penalty is probably OTT, and ill-informed criticism is just insulting.
Firefly625
Well-Known Member
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Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Just to back up what I said in another thread, I actually have a 2 person kayak on board and the SWMBO and I do use it regularly for fun and exercise. However we do take care to keep away from busy channels and if I was to take it out into open water, I wouldn't expect any favours from passing boats. As far as I'm concerned, if you take a small boat or kayak into an area where bigger boats operate, you have to be able to deal with the consequences. Taking a grey coloured kayak out into the Solent on a choppy day without a safety boat or some way of drawing attention to yourself is just asking for trouble
DAKA
Well-Known Member
You make a very good point, they could well be endangering lives, anyone know if they have to be category rated for offshore use ?
If they are only rated for sheltered waters in fair weather there is a good chance they shouldnt be that far out.
My tender is class c rated, I shouldnt be offshore with it and wouldnt dream of putting others in danger by doing so.
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Firefly625
Well-Known Member
Searush, well my concern was with their equipment, indeed if there is truly NO vhf or mobile coverage then an EPIRB surely is worth the small investment for every single member of a group planning to go offshore in kayaks. Certainly the story is very sad and I don't believe anyone on here has stated or indeed believes the deceased has got her just deserves, in fact I am sure quite the opposite!
But the fact this tragedy may have been avoidable gets me upset. Certainly I would never comment on other peoples usage or enjoyment of the sea however they chose to do it so long as they are correctly equipped and don't intend relying on others to risk their own lives to save them..
...also I don't believe I have been slagging anyone off....
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Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Precisely. Kayakers have an obligation not to endanger their own lives and more importantly, the lives of the emergency services who have to go and rescue them
ninky
Well-Known Member
there are far more callouts per capita of boats than kayaks afaik. particularly those suffering engine failure.
also, do mobo owners never anchor up and swim from their boat? surely that could also be highly dangerous if we expect people to be doing high speeds?
also, do mobo owners never anchor up and swim from their boat? surely that could also be highly dangerous if we expect people to be doing high speeds?
DAKA
Well-Known Member
As a Kayak user (formerly experienced with previous qualifications) I am grateful to Searush for bringing the dangers to the forums attention by means of the tragic example quoted, I am sure all of our thoughts and sympathy are with the ones left behind still grieving.
I would also like to say that my post didnt intend any disrespect.
fireball
Well-Known Member
Replying to no-one in particular ....
Kayaks are perfectly entitled to go anywhere any other leisure water user is entitled to ... as are any swimmers ...
However, IMHO, they should seek to make themselves a little more visible than they appear too at the moment when venturing into open water or areas where other craft are known to frequent.
As has been mentioned above - it is easy enough to get a rod and attach a flag which should increase their visibility unless you're approaching from direct downwind or direct upwind.
Kayaks are perfectly entitled to go anywhere any other leisure water user is entitled to ... as are any swimmers ...
However, IMHO, they should seek to make themselves a little more visible than they appear too at the moment when venturing into open water or areas where other craft are known to frequent.
As has been mentioned above - it is easy enough to get a rod and attach a flag which should increase their visibility unless you're approaching from direct downwind or direct upwind.
DAKA
Well-Known Member
Actually most weekends when I have been out in the solent there will be some sort of kayak issue from one found upside down to lost.
I dont even stop in channels never mind anchor and swim in them, I wouldnt consider it safe to do so.
If I were to brake down in a channel I would immediately report it to VTS, drift out of it and drop anchor OUTSIDE the shipping lane
Little Rascal
Well-Known Member
Speaking as a Sea kayaker:
Agree with sea rush - plenty of ill-informed opinions here.
As has been mentioned seakayaking as a sport has a very long history and takes safety very seriously.
However kayak fishing has become almost another branch of the sport entirely.
With regard to the OP I very much doubt that anything you or your wash can do would be able to get me out of my boat. An experieced seakayker in a proper sea kayak is one of most seaworthy craft out there. Although consideration shown by motor boats is always appreciated.
Most proper sea kayaks are brightly coloured for visibility, but the flag idea isn't a bad one.
However there are many people who are firmly in the 'buy it and try it' catagory in kayaking just as there are with pwc and motor boat owners.
I would be very cautious around kayak-fishers or those in sit-on-tops or inflatables. They are the vulnerable ones who shouldn't be more than a few hundred metres offshore in most circumstances and who you could cause problems for with your wash.
If a risk of collision exists and you are unable to keep a good enough look out for the kind of vessels you are likely to encounter then you are not travelling at a safe speed.
Agree with sea rush - plenty of ill-informed opinions here.
As has been mentioned seakayaking as a sport has a very long history and takes safety very seriously.
However kayak fishing has become almost another branch of the sport entirely.
With regard to the OP I very much doubt that anything you or your wash can do would be able to get me out of my boat. An experieced seakayker in a proper sea kayak is one of most seaworthy craft out there. Although consideration shown by motor boats is always appreciated.
Most proper sea kayaks are brightly coloured for visibility, but the flag idea isn't a bad one.
However there are many people who are firmly in the 'buy it and try it' catagory in kayaking just as there are with pwc and motor boat owners.
I would be very cautious around kayak-fishers or those in sit-on-tops or inflatables. They are the vulnerable ones who shouldn't be more than a few hundred metres offshore in most circumstances and who you could cause problems for with your wash.
If a risk of collision exists and you are unable to keep a good enough look out for the kind of vessels you are likely to encounter then you are not travelling at a safe speed.
Searush
Well-Known Member
I think you have forgotten where these craft derive from - they have been used for Arctic hunting trips for a thousand years or so. A kayak with spraydeck in experienced hands can cope with ice floes, waterfalls, overfalls, surf - in fact it is FAR more seaworthy than any motorboat - with the possible exception of a drysuited rib driver wearing a full harness seatbelt.
The kayaks concerned were such craft, my guess is that tiredness may have overcome her.
I'll bet you wouldn't take your boat down the Town Falls or Serpent's Tail chasm in Llangollen?
oldgit
Well-Known Member
FAR more seaworthy than any motorboat
....so you are out there and you are tired and cold and a long way offshore perhaps having lost your single method of propulsion.
S,pose you can always go below, turn on the Eberspacher,put the kettle on rustle up a corn beef hash and wait for rescue just like a motor boat.
....so you are out there and you are tired and cold and a long way offshore perhaps having lost your single method of propulsion.
S,pose you can always go below, turn on the Eberspacher,put the kettle on rustle up a corn beef hash and wait for rescue just like a motor boat.
Searush
Well-Known Member
FAR more seaworthy than any motorboat
....so you are out there and you are tired and cold and a long way offshore perhaps having lost your single method of propulsion.
S,pose you can always go below, turn on the Eberspacher,put the kettle on rustle up a corn beef hash and wait for rescue just like a motor boat.
And you can nip in & out of rocks in surf can you? And if you were capsized, how would you cope with that? Can you safely run ashore on any beach - including a leeward one? Lost paddles shouldn't happen, there are wrist straps & most sea kayaks will carry a spare just in case. Kayaks can self rescue - how would you do that? I accept that long distance in a kayak requires specialist preparation, but I would prefer a kayak in rapids any day.
Kayaks have crossed the Irish Sea & circumnavigated the UK. Don't think that they are just inshore toys.
iangrant
Well-Known Member
But
It is the inshore toys that get blown/tide carried out, then it's the Motor boats who fetch them in
It is the inshore toys that get blown/tide carried out, then it's the Motor boats who fetch them in
