Kahlenberg horns

[LionsDen]

A common theme from the show was from Sail boat owners who would say "I don't need a horn on my yacht". Anyone have any guidance on why this may be a common misconception ?

Thanks,

Toby

If yachties do venture out in fog I assume they have a fog horn on board hence why they do not need a horn on board
Be interesing to know what % off boat owners both sail and power know what the sound signals represent. I for one have seen many owners who are totally oblivious what is going on around them

 

[Groot T]

seriously though - would you buy from a company who invokes the "you won't be insured" bogeyman? smacks of the desperate marketing to me...

I'll jump in here and be the first to say "absolutely not" and echo your concerns over desperate marketing.

Our message from the stand was born out of concern due to a loop hole which has emerged for boats above sized between 12.00m and 24.00m LOA. More than happy to explain ourselves should you wish.
I can only apologise if our message came across as you've described, this was most definitely not what we wanted you to walk away thinking that is what you heard - sorry!
I really do hope, and not for my benefit, you checked with your insurers. I suspect they would have come back with 'This isn't a problem, sir'. Though some have come back advising their insurers have stated otherwise and that is why we are still asking people to check.

Cautionary message aside, what did you think of the horns ?
Part of my is wondering if we should wheel out some of the really big sets for next year...

If yachties do venture out in fog I assume they have a fog horn on board hence why they do not need a horn on board
Be interesing to know what % off boat owners both sail and power know what the sound signals represent. I for one have seen many owners who are totally oblivious what is going on around them

You raise a very good, and equally as worrying, point. What isn't known is how important a ships whistle (precise wording for 'horn' or 'fog horn') is and not just for when in fog.
For example, the five short blasts must be made if someone is too close and you have to question their intentions. If a bump occurs, then questions are going to be asked about if that sound-signal is made and, if they're good, what it was made with.
If you can't prove the horn was in parallel or exceeds the ColRegs then things could get sticky.

Forewarned, as they say..

 

[JSYmartini]

My new Kahlenberg S-0A horn arrived a few days ago, many thanks again Toby.

It certainly looks like quality merchandise, even the packaging reminded me of that day a few years ago when my B&W speakers arrived

Can't wait to get it all fitted and push some air through that impressive looking trumpet!

My only slight regret is I didn't buy a much larger compressor and air receiver which I could then plumb into the boat and use for other things ie pumping dinghies, running air tools, blowing out dirty carburettors etc etc. didn't think about it until it arrived but that can be another project for the future.

 

[PaulGooch]

If yachties do venture out in fog I assume they have a fog horn on board hence why they do not need a horn on board
Be interesing to know what % off boat owners both sail and power know what the sound signals represent. I for one have seen many owners who are totally oblivious what is going on around them

I fully understand the sound signals. For instance, when transiting the River Nene, several short blasts as we pass the brown cows on the river bank means "hello cows". There are others, but i don't want to show off too much with my extensive knowledge of horns.

 

[PaulGooch]

It is something I would desperately want to do but we just can't do it

Sorry, but with respect, i don't accept that.

At the very least, you could have a selection of horns, compressors etc, all with prices. That'd give an idea of the total cost. If, for example, a mega horn mark IV was £9000, i'd know i didn't need to look further and wouldn't waste your time or mine with a phone call.

If, on the other hand, you're not interested in selling horns to those who might not have unlimited funds available, then it probably doesn't matter.

 

[jfm]

horn was in parallel...

Hi Toby. What does that mean?

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Actually, this may be something you can all help me with. A common theme from the show was from Sail boat owners who would say "I don't need a horn on my yacht". Anyone have any guidance on why this may be a common misconception ?

Thanks,

Toby

You should campaign to have a new sound signal added to IRCPS - "Slow down, you are making excessive wash".

You'd make a fortune out of the raggie's then.

 

[Groot T]

Sorry, but with respect, I don't accept that.

At the very least, you could have a selection of horns, compressors etc, all with prices. That'd give an idea of the total cost. If, for example, a mega horn mark IV was £9000, i'd know i didn't need to look further and wouldn't waste your time or mine with a phone call.

If, on the other hand, you're not interested in selling horns to those who might not have unlimited funds available, then it probably doesn't matter.

Hay Paul, heard and understood.
You raise a very valid point and when we have the website fully populated with horns we can try and put something in which has that. Will give it some very serious consideration and see if we can start to put something together.
Thank you!

Hi Toby. What does that mean?

Hi JFM. By "in parallel" I mean "meet". But will ping you an E-mail to make sure I've answered you properly.



Also, I've suddenly become very aware the conversations have drifted from JoeQs original question to pricing on websites and our campaign at the boat-show. The last point could be taken as a form of selling and I really don't want to get banned. Too many interesting topics with pics which I could no longer view!

As such, if anyone wants to further what has been discussed, PM me!

And finally, a very big tank you to all of you the points which have raised here. Some very useful stuff indeed!

 

[sarabande]

"It is something I would desperately want to do but we just can't do it, though I fully understand it may be have a negative impact on sales."


There's a common theme in all T Groot's replies, and that is a defensive unwillingness to listen to potential customers. Allied to evasive and unclear answers ("parallel ???) thsi creates a distinct feeling that someone is sitting on a range of excellent products, which has the considerable potential for development at the lower end (smaller yachts and mobos) but who really can't be bothered to drive the business forward in a customer friendly manner.

There is no practical or commercial reason why TG cannot put onto the website prices of sample kits (say 30ft, 40ft, and 50 ft boats) so that people can tell whether it is worth troubling the company's sales people for further information.


Wake up and smell the coffee, otherwise another company will come along, see the gap in the market and wipe the floor with you !

 

[JoeQ]

Also, I've suddenly become very aware the conversations have drifted from JoeQs original question to pricing on websites and our campaign at the boat-show. The last point could be taken as a form of selling and I really don't want to get banned. Too many interesting topics with pics which I could no longer view!

I disagree totally. The main point of my original post was to get you guys to realise that you need to provide prices for people who are simply browsing. I didn't go to the boat show to buy horns but thought they were impressive when I walked past. If there had been prices on display I would have very quickly decided if your products were in my budget. Stop being defensive and wake up to a potential market which you and you alone are very quickly alienating.

 

[Groot T]

Hi sarabande - i take a lot of heart in what you have said so thank you. It is very encouraging seeing what you're putting because you're wanting the best for our little company, so thank you!

As I have mentioned in previous responses, I am extremely appreciative of any and all feedback and it is all being taken into consideration.

To make sure nothing is being missed, can I reply to the points which you have raised?

There's a common theme in all T Groot's replies, and that is a defensive unwillingness to listen to potential customers.

In my last post in response to Paulgooch, I said, "Will give it some very serious consideration and see if we can start to put something together."
We are currently rebuilding the web-site and populating it with all our horns and, on the back of this discussion, we will now start to figure out a way of indicating pricing. I want to incorporate the feedback posted here to ensure the website is as potent and effective as possible!

Allied to evasive and unclear answers ("parallel ???)

This may have been the wrong phrase to use here. So to explain more fully.
Annex III within the ColRegs is titled "Technical details of sound signal appliances".
Part 1 is entitled Whistles. (a Whistle is the ships main sound signalling device)
Section (a) outlines upper and lower fundamental frequencies
Section (b) apportions precise fundamental frequency ranges for vessel LOAs
Section (c) stipulates minimum sound intensity vessel LOAs

The other sections then go on to describe directional properties, whistle positioning etc etc.

So, my response of 'in parallel' was a way of saying 'sits within the fundamental frequency range for your vessel LOA and meets or exceeds the minimum sound intensity level'.
Was parallel the wrong word to use ?

thsi creates a distinct feeling that someone is sitting on a range of excellent products, which has the considerable potential for development at the lower end (smaller yachts and mobos) but who really can't be bothered to drive the business forward in a customer friendly manner.

Reading statements like this is a good thing because it means our name is getting out there. The down side is potential customers aren't getting all the information they require when browsing to either whet the appetite or to quickly unearth if its too 'spensive.

There is no practical or commercial reason why TG cannot put onto the website prices of sample kits (say 30ft, 40ft, and 50 ft boats) so that people can tell whether it is worth troubling the company's sales people for further information.

Southampton Boat Show has been our first time at stepping into this market and what has been said on this forum has been some of the most useful responses. Lots of good interest at the show which has turned it into a huge success. This thread is proving to be extremely productive, so need to start stitching everything together.

Wake up and smell the coffee, otherwise another company will come along, see the gap in the market and wipe the floor with you !

Consider the coffee well and truly smelt!

 

[Groot T]

I disagree totally. The main point of my original post was to get you guys to realise that you need to provide prices for people who are simply browsing. I didn't go to the boat show to buy horns but thought they were impressive when I walked past. If there had been prices on display I would have very quickly decided if your products were in my budget. Stop being defensive and wake up to a potential market which you and you alone are very quickly alienating.

Hay Joe, from our E-mail conversations and the way in which your original post was worded I wouldn't have drawn that conclusion. In fact, being sworn at over E-mail is a new experience for me, especially when offering to help!

Semantics aside, if your intention was to try and expose where we're not doing things quite right then I extend to you the same heart felt thanks I have to sarabande and everyone else who has posted here.

Also, did you get my E-mail ?

Thanks!

Toby


P.S. Just to note that the posts of people who have purchased from us are only of enjoyable and positive experiences, so I'm presuming if we can get this part sorted then everyone will be happy!

 

[prv]

Actually, this may be something you can all help me with. A common theme from the show was from Sail boat owners who would say "I don't need a horn on my yacht". Anyone have any guidance on why this may be a common misconception ?

I guess because vanishingly few sailing yachts have one. Most will have an aerosol or mouth operated horn for fog squirrelled away somewhere, but I've never been on or noticed a yacht with a fitted horn.

I have plans for a bigger and more capable boat, and some kind of foghorn (as provided, for example, by some VHFs with an external speaker) is on the list. I might then have a button for manual activation as well. But I'll be very unusual.

Pete

 

[JoeQ]

In fact, being sworn at over E-mail is a new experience for me, especially when offering to help!

I take exception to that. All you're doing is pissing people off. I for one will never buy one of your products.

 

[benjenbav]

Hay Joe, from our E-mail conversations and the way in which your original post was worded I wouldn't have drawn that conclusion. In fact, being sworn at over E-mail is a new experience for me, especially when offering to help!

Semantics aside, if your intention was to try and expose where we're not doing things quite right then I extend to you the same heart felt thanks I have to sarabande and everyone else who has posted here.

Also, did you get my E-mail ?

Thanks!

Toby


P.S. Just to note that the posts of people who have purchased from us are only of enjoyable and positive experiences, so I'm presuming if we can get this part sorted then everyone will be happy!

Well, Toby - I currently find myself sufficiently equipped on the horn front to meet my immediate desires. So I'm unlikely to be a customer in the short term. But I have very much enjoyed playing the sound clip you've got on the website for the K Series.

In retrospect, I think I enjoyed playing with that clip more than one or two others in my office did. But at least I know they're not asleep at their desks.

 

[SpottyDog5]

Toby seems to me to be the kind of Guy who cares deeply for his Customers and ensuring they get the correct product combination to meet their requirements/needs.
Sure, he could put some sample prices of a typical installation, so peeps can quickly decide whether to take things further, but I suspect very few installations are "typical".

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

In fact, being sworn at over E-mail is a new experience for me, especially when offering to help!

I take exception to that. All you're doing is pissing people off. I for one will never buy one of your products.

JoeQ, I think you need to calm down a bit. As far as I can tell, Toby is not 'pissing people off', in fact he's demonstrating a very positive resilience to some fairly fierce feedback from posters on this thread, including you, and seems to be planning to respond to the very specific points raised about publishing his pricing. What is it exactly that you're taking exception to?

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[longjohnsilver]

I take exception to that. All you're doing is pissing people off. I for one will never buy one of your products.

Its's a funny old world, I started by supporting Piers and his company but was then won round with your (and others) argument that an indication of price should be displayed on the website. I'm still of that opinion, but uneasy with the accusations made; are you saying that you didn't swear at Toby in an email? I think further clarification is need to allow us to make our own judgement.

 

[JoeQ]

What is it exactly that you're taking exception to?

He has accused me, on a public forum, of swearing at him. This is not the case. I get the feeling he's becoming frustrated at the criticism he's received.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

He has accused me, on a public forum, of swearing at him. This is not the case. I get the feeling he's becoming frustrated at the criticism he's received.

Fair enough. I think we need Toby to explain his 'sworn at' comment. I really don't get the impression that he is getting frustrated through, I think he's doing a good job of not taking the feedback personally and also trying to (admittedly slowly) respond to the point raised.

Cheers
Jimmy