Kad300 stalling

[Raff riv]

Hi, I have twin kad300 in a 2004 riviera, starboard engine intermittently cuts out, restarts every time, had a scan done and showed a fault in the diesel pump actuator short to ground, had the pump rebuilt and the actuator replaced, still same problem, thoughts? It’s driving me insane!!!!

 

[volvopaul]

Hi, I have twin kad300 in a 2004 riviera, starboard engine intermittently cuts out, restarts every time, had a scan done and showed a fault in the diesel pump actuator short to ground, had the pump rebuilt and the actuator replaced, still same problem, thoughts? It’s driving me insane!!!!

Obviously wasn’t the pump.

Sadly the old edc system gave ghost fault codes, I’ll give you an example .
This year I worked on a kad44 with around 10 fault codes , the actual problem wasn’t any component failure ie as an example a failed boost temp sensor , the fail laid in poor earth connection in the wiring loom , an imbalance of voltage causes this .
My advice would be to go through the loom take each connection off, clean it and put it back , use an electrical contact spray and lube the connections after .
The last actuator fault in an injection pump turned out to be a faulty connection on the flywheel sensor , yes I know you would ask yourself why but it’s true.

 

[Raff riv]

thanks for that, we wriggled all the wiring with the engine running, still didn't play up, will have to remove all plugs as you stated, any idea where I may find the main earth for the engine as it seems like a ground issue, been chasing this problem for months now.
flywheel sensor....speed sensor?
thanks

 

[volvopaul]

thanks for that, we wriggled all the wiring with the engine running, still didn't play up, will have to remove all plugs as you stated, any idea where I may find the main earth for the engine as it seems like a ground issue, been chasing this problem for months now.
flywheel sensor....speed sensor?
thanks

Earth cable to block under injection pump.
Earth cable on black box .
All earth back to alternator terminal.

 

[Raff riv]

Thankyou for the valuable information, I mey even try swapping the alternator from 1 engine to the other in case it is shorting internally, this fault has a few of the local guys stumped.
thanks again

 

[gery w]

Try giving the stop relay a sharp knock when the engine is running and see if it shuts down,had this previously on a kamd300....worth a try

 

[Raff riv]

1st thing I did, followed by swapping between the 2 motors, still the same, it’s got the local
Guys stumped! My worst fear is it failing and not restarting with the wife and kids on board!

 

[Portofino]

How’s the fire protection work in the engine room ?Is there an auto shutdown that kills the engines as well as release the suppressant?Its not clear that’s why I ask .
If so look at the control mechanism, if it’s intermittent these usually sometimes via a relay/ solenoid or something have some control on the injection pump ,that’s how they work .

 

[Raff riv]

Do they all have a fire control system?

 

[Portofino]

Do they all have a fire control system?

No
They can have a system that when you activate it from the helm the extinguisher goes off which is kinda what you would expect .
But Diesel engines running can suck the suppression agent , so that’s not good on many levels like reduced suppressant power and importantly if some suppressants is ingested can knacker the engine .

To get by this some ( that’s why I ask ) some have a relay / solinoid control mechanism that simultaneously shuts the engine(s) down when you pull / set off the extinguisher in the engine room .

If yours has such a divice it works on the injector pump solinoid .So It’s possible it may be the cause .

Be very careful fiddling about with it ( testing fault finding etc ) because if it’s faulty as well as intermittently stoping the engine , you don,t want to inadvertently set the extinguisher off esp while you are in the ER .
There should be a pin like a hand grenade to place in the canister to make safe , I would be inclined to do that before investigating.

Obviously if the boats not got an integrated engine stop then it’s not that .

 

[Raff riv]

I will check it out, however I have never seen anything like this in my travels, when I disconnect the stop relay it gives exactly the same symptom, however the relays have been swapped

 

[petem]

Be very careful fiddling about with it ( testing fault finding etc ) because if it’s faulty as well as intermittently stoping the engine , you don,t want to inadvertently set the extinguisher off esp while you are in the ER .
There should be a pin like a hand grenade to place in the canister to make safe , I would be inclined to do that before investigating.

Porto, fiddling about with the connections to the Seafire box won't set the extinguisher off (the extinguisher is mechanically activated and it's the resultant low pressure that send a signal to the Seafire box to shut down the engine and blowers).

But, you're right, the Seafire system (if fitted) could certainly be the culprit. Indeed when I had my engines serviced a few months ago the VP engineers couldn't start them and diagnosed a poor Seafire connection.

On the KAD300 engines, you can temporarily disable the shutdown by disconnecting the shutdown wires from the Seafire box or better still disconnecting the purple wire to the stop solenoid on the fuel pump.

 

[Raff riv]

There is no sea fire system, batteries have been tested and need replacement, far fetch that this is the culprit however the starboard does run the house, next will be swapping computers between motors

 

[petem]

There is no sea fire system, batteries have been tested and need replacement, far fetch that this is the culprit however the starboard does run the house, next will be swapping computers between motors

OK. What happens when you disconnect the stop solenoid and take it for a run? Does it still stall?

 

[Raff riv]

I have swapped the stop solenoid from the port motor, no difference

 

[petem]

I have swapped the stop solenoid from the port motor, no difference

Swopping the stop solenoids and disconnecting them completely are quite different tests. I'm no mechanic but surely the first thing to rule out is an issue with the stop system full stop?

 

[Portofino]

Swopping the stop solenoids and disconnecting them completely are quite different tests. I'm no mechanic but surely the first thing to rule out is an issue with the stop system full stop?

Pete .
In my experience these stop solinoids need a +ve feed to enable running .
That’s what happens with the ignition key .
So if I,am correct ( pretty sure and equally happy to be corrected as usual:encouragement unplugging or interrupting the feed will prevent the thing running ,kill it straight away ,

Intermittent e faults are devils to sort .
More so if there’s an ECU in the mix .
I,ve know with cars ( modern stuff stuffed with ECU,s ) that issues like this once all the connections have been check through it’s ends up an ECU issue .
Sometimes it’s actually the programme , so you need a computer to remove the program wipe it clean as Volvo Paul says false codes and then simply reload it .
So no parts actually changed just the ECU programmes debugged - if that makes sense .
It’s not a quick job and certainly a dealer job as ( with cars ) there are security access codes to remove it and new PIN codes when it’s reinstalled.

I don’t know how techy these motors are .

One could really on the engines and put a multimeter across the stop solinoid contacts to measure any changes during a run and simulation of the fault to see if there’s any erroneous [ insert your values ] like voltage drop .
And measure the good motor as a control .
Then find out what’s controlling that parameter that’s changed to tell the solinoid to shut it down .
Or at the very least eliminate the stop solinoid(s)

We have already deduced the stop solinoids work by swopping , but what controls them ? That’s where to look .
For example if the throttle control at the helm momentarily while running in gear thinks ( because it’s faulty- duff micro switch) it’s in N , it may send a stop signal to the stop solinoid thus kill the motor .There could be loads of reasons that’s just 1 .Another could be a faulty ignition barrel , a bump or something ( ver d griss ) could switch it off even though the key is clearly in the ON / run position.——- and so on a so forth ...........

None electrotwackerey
Other things that kill it like choked air intake .
Stuff like the inside of a filter collapsed that takes time to somehow move and cause a restriction, stopping it .
It regains shape so enables a restart - until x pressure builds again .
Check the patency of the rest of the induction piping , sometimes pipes collapse ,the linings drop down .
Don,t know how deep his engineer has been checking stuff ? Only as per forum usual drip fed info .

 

[Raff riv]

Ignition barrels have een swapped over to no success, I was replaceing the batteries last night as they all failed load test, was trying to work out which battery was for which motor, ended up finding 2 big earth leads loose on the starboard motor, have tightened this up & replaced the batteries, took it for a run & it didn't play up, however time will tell as it doesn't do it all the time, it had 1 crank battery for the genset, a dep cycle for the port (which also runs the anchor) and 2 deep cycles for starboard, however I was recommended to put a non deep cycle into the port motor. (starboard runs house circuit) hopefully the issue is solved!! feeling pretty confident with the earth lead.

 

[petem]

In my experience these stop solinoids need a +ve feed to enable running .
That’s what happens with the ignition key .
So if I,am correct ( pretty sure and equally happy to be corrected as usual:encouragement unplugging or interrupting the feed will prevent the thing running ,kill it straight away ,

Porto, that's not my understanding. On another thread Volvopaul advised that if the Seafire system was shutting the engine down then the temporary workaround is to pull the the purple wire out of the stop solenoid.

 

[petem]

Ignition barrels have een swapped over to no success, I was replaceing the batteries last night as they all failed load test, was trying to work out which battery was for which motor, ended up finding 2 big earth leads loose on the starboard motor, have tightened this up & replaced the batteries, took it for a run & it didn't play up, however time will tell as it doesn't do it all the time, it had 1 crank battery for the genset, a dep cycle for the port (which also runs the anchor) and 2 deep cycles for starboard, however I was recommended to put a non deep cycle into the port motor. (starboard runs house circuit) hopefully the issue is solved!! feeling pretty confident with the earth lead.

Sounds like you could have found the cure. I know that on my engines (KAD44 so very similar to yours), switching off the engine master switches with the engines running can produce unpredictable results, such as the engine stalling. Fingers crossed!