JW's Upgrades for 2016 - Anchoring

[MapisM]

It's simply a line (or two) possibly with a rubber shock absorber, meant to take away the chain load from the winch.
You attach it (a) using bow cleats, and (b) with a steel hook.

 

[Hurricane]

I'm interested - what do you, all, mean as 'snubber'? and how do you attach same, (a) to yachts (b) to chain.

Just a bridle - the two ends of the bridle are attached to substantial deck cleats the chain end just uses a chain hook.
I've added rubber snubbers in mine.
I've had it years - the main reason that we use it is because at the moment, we don't have a chain lock.
Up to now, we use this bridle to take the strain off the windlass.

Here's a pic before the 12mm upgrade.

I will be fitting a chain lock for next season so the bridle won't be as necessary.
Probably still use it overnight and for longer stays.

 

[MedMilo]

Well, with a 7x scope, that's hardly surprising!
Would you have let down more chain with a Delta (or any other anchor for that matter) and/or a smaller chain?
Fwiw, I'm pretty sure that also my above brick wouldn't move, in similar conditions.

Btw, I assume you weren't around the S coast of Sardinia, or were you?
Down there, we did have some windy days, but I can't remember a single occasion anywhere neat 48kts!

I loved the Delta and it set quickly (not quite as quick as the Rocna but that's not a huge issue) and held very well indeed. As someone said earlier, I think it's as much about the weight as the design - so I would have felt just as happy with the Delta of the same weight. When I said I was in 5m I should say my depth gauge said 5m and it's offset by 1m (for the props etc) plus I need to add 2m for the distance from the waterline to the bow roller so really only about 4.5x

We were coming up from Cala di Volpe in late July and as we came up past Porto Cervo and rounded the corner into the islands the wind was fairly steadily in the late 30's and early 40's and occasionally gusted to late 40's. We were en route back to Bonifacio (and then home to Mahon) so motored up to Liscia and dropped the anchor for the day and the wind just kept blowing and was even stronger up there as it's right on the edge of the Straits - regularly gusting 45-48 knots. Probably would have been better heading over to Budelli island but didn't fancy making a run across relatively open sea!! Ended up lasting for 3 days so we got a berth for a couple of nights in La Maddalena while we waited for it to blow through. Loved the Costa Smeralda, though the prices in one or two of the 'hot spots' were hilarious!

 

[MedMilo]

I'm interested - what do you, all, mean as 'snubber'? and how do you attach same, (a) to yachts (b) to chain.

By a snubber I just mean something along the lines of Hurricane's set up - two 10m lengths of 16mm anchor plait spliced to a ss ring and shackled to a 12mm anchor hook. I've not gone as far as rubber shock absorbers as I'm happy that the anchor plait has plenty of stretch. In a big blow I'd use most of the 10m and leave a large loop of anchor chain hanging between the hook and the roller. As the wind gusts, most of the loop will be taken up by the stretching anchor plait and I think this helps reduce the snatching of the chain on the anchor, particularly in relatively shallow water where the catenary effect of the chain obviously gives less shock absorption. It also has the huge advantage of stopping the chain from grinding against the bow roller thus allowing the occupants of the fore cabin to get some sleep!

 

[Neeves]

MapisM and Hurricane - thanks, I was simply checking that your meaning of snubber and mine were similar, you two have the same meaning, my idea s something a bit longer and a bit more elastic.

MedMilo - your idea of a snubber and mine coincide a decent 10m length of anchorplait (or in both your and my case 2 x lengths) to form a bridle. I cannot comment on your 16mm diameter as I do not know your windage - but if you are not getting over a metre of stretch then you are not enjoying the benefits of the elasticity of nylon. We run ours up the sidedecks so we do not have so much 'sticking out the bow'.

 

[jfm]

I must say the first thing I'd do in 48 knots of wind is remove any snubber! You're more like to want to get the hell out than be bothered about noise of chain on rollers and snatch loads.
I am happy to remain the sole member of the "don't like snubbers" club though!

 

[petem]

Stupid question time....

If, for example, I had an OEM 10KG anchor, could I replace it with any other type of 10KG anchor without altering the bow roller? How certain could I be that it would right itself and stow correctly (and not bash the hull)? Is there a rule of thumb for oversizing? Could I assume that I'd be OK with a 15KG anchor if I wanted to upgrade?

Pete

 

[jfm]

You couldn't be sure of any of that Pete. You'd have to measure the new anchor, or download the 3d model that most anchor manufs supply free and place it on your boat's 3d model (with help of factory)

 

[petem]

Thanks, that spunds a faff. Might just have to settle for some extra chain then.

 

[Hurricane]

I must say the first thing I'd do in 48 knots of wind is remove any snubber! You're more like to want to get the hell out than be bothered about noise of chain on rollers and snatch loads.
I am happy to remain the sole member of the "don't like snubbers" club though!

I don't have an option at the moment.
It has to be a snubber or I screw my windlass' gearbox.
When I've put the chain lock on though, I may well be joining your club again.

 

[noelex]

I must say the first thing I'd do in 48 knots of wind is remove any snubber! You're more like to want to get the hell out than be bothered about noise of chain on rollers and snatch loads.
I am happy to remain the sole member of the "don't like snubbers" club though!

The problem is that the snatch load is one of the factors that will pull the anchor out. Chain catenary provides some elasticity at low and moderate wind speeds, but this effect is largely lost at high wind speeds unless the anchorage is very deep.

By restoring elasticity to the system, the snubber plays an important role in strong wind working to even out the high snatch loads that might otherwise be too much for the anchor.

Come on, make the switch and join the "I love snubbers" club. The only difference compared to the "don't like snubbers" club is that we host parties on the boat rather the beach or rocks .

 

[Nick_H]

Thanks, that spunds a faff. Might just have to settle for some extra chain then.

If you were thinking of changing to a 15 kg delta for instance, you'd probably find one in stock local to the boat, and could take it on sale or return to see if it fits. That would be more difficult with a more exotic anchor though which don't tend to be held in stock.

 

[petem]

You couldn't be sure of any of that Pete. You'd have to measure the new anchor, or download the 3d model that most anchor manufs supply free and place it on your boat's 3d model (with help of factory)

Thinking about it, how much of the limitation is down to the boat and how much of it is down to the bow roller? The only limitation on the boat / installation would be the angle of the hull and the distance between the bow roller and the windlass surely? Perhaps you can never be 100% sure that a particular anchor will work without trying it (I'm thinking about some unpredictable behavior that might cause it to swing before stowing in an undesirable way)

I suppose I could ask the factory if they offered any alternative anchors at the time (nobody say I better be quick ;(). Or I could ask on my own website if anyone has tried alternative anchors - now there's a thought.

 

[Portofino]

I don't have an option at the moment.
It has to be a snubber or I screw my windlass' gearbox.
When I've put the chain lock on though, I may well be joining your club again.

yeh you do -place the hook -or rope through the chain in the bow area on the deck near a cleat - and tie off to a cleat -saving force in the g-box
So you can easily slip it and bug out asap if needed

 

[Portofino]

I must say the first thing I'd do in 48 knots of wind is remove any snubber! You're more like to want to get the hell out than be bothered about noise of chain on rollers and snatch loads.
I am happy to remain the sole member of the "don't like snubbers" club though!

There are two of us

 

[Hurricane]

yeh you do -place the hook -or rope through the chain in the bow area on the deck near a cleat - and tie off to a cleat -saving force in the g-box
So you can easily slip it and bug out asap if needed

Tried that - didn't work.
Rope was at the wrong angle and stretched too much.
And by the time I'd faffed round doing that, we could have fitted our purpose made snubber.

The Chain Lock will be a totally different matter - I'm hoping that all we will need to do is flip the little flap and its - job done.
The chain lock that I've bought is one of these:-

 

[jfm]

The problem is that the snatch load is one of the factors that will pull the anchor out. Chain catenary provides some elasticity at low and moderate wind speeds, but this effect is largely lost at high wind speeds unless the anchorage is very deep.

By restoring elasticity to the system, the snubber plays an important role in strong wind working to even out the high snatch loads that might otherwise be too much for the anchor.

Come on, make the switch and join the "I love snubbers" club. The only difference compared to the "don't like snubbers" club is that we host parties on the boat rather the beach or rocks .

I very firmly disagree noelex but I don't want to hijack the thread to have a snubber/no snubber debate here so I'm happy to agree to disagree. I'm happy to enter the parties competition anytime :encouragement:. @Portofino - woohoo!

 

[noelex]

I'm happy to enter the parties competition anytime :encouragement:. @Portofino - woohoo!

Now that is unfair, everyone knows that boats like yours have a dozen nubile 18 year olds stored away in the bilge ready for such competitions .

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

We were coming up from Cala di Volpe in late July and as we came up past Porto Cervo and rounded the corner into the islands the wind was fairly steadily in the late 30's and early 40's and occasionally gusted to late 40's. We were en route back to Bonifacio (and then home to Mahon) so motored up to Liscia and dropped the anchor for the day and the wind just kept blowing and was even stronger up there as it's right on the edge of the Straits - regularly gusting 45-48 knots. Probably would have been better heading over to Budelli island but didn't fancy making a run across relatively open sea!! Ended up lasting for 3 days so we got a berth for a couple of nights in La Maddalena while we waited for it to blow through. Loved the Costa Smeralda, though the prices in one or two of the 'hot spots' were hilarious!

In contrast we dragged our 60kg Delta in lighter winds than that in 2 popular anchorages around the island of Caprera in the Maddalenas last year. The second time was quite scary because I don't just dump the anchor on the seabed, I make a point of trying to set the anchor as well as I can. We held perfectly firm for a couple of hours and then started to drag with no apparent wind strength increase. FWIW, my observation is that where the seabed is soft, such as it is around Caprera where the sand seems to be quite sugary, the Delta will try to do what it's shape suggests it will do and that is to plough through the seabed. In S Sardinia this year where the sand seems to be firmer, the Delta held very well and we didn't experience any drags this year despite the often boisterous wind conditions

I'm going to change the Delta for a 55kg Rocna this winter as well. I'm hoping that the larger more concave shaped flukes will hold better in softer seabeds compared to the Delta

Yes the marina prices in the Costa Smerelda in August are just ludicrous

 

[jrudge]

Mine is being fitted this winter ... sadly not included in the sale price. We had dragging issues all summer almost regardless of how much chain was out...

I have a Squadron 65 with pretty much the same set up as you're going to end up with - Rocna 55kg, 100m of 12mm chain, chain stopper aft of bow roller, Kong swivel, Lewmar V4 windlass. ( all SS but I managed to get BUC/Fairline to include this in the sale price!)

I went for the 12mm chain as it's around 70% heavier than the 10mm so, as you say, you can get away with relatively little scope in normal conditions and much better holding in extreme winds. On my last boat (Sq 58) I had a 40kg Delta which worked very well but I have noticed that the Rocna sets in about half the distance when compared with the Delta. I needed to make a couple of small modifications to my bow roller arrangement to accommodate the Rocna however I think this was more to do with the increased size (the oem anchor is, I think, 35kgs) than the design/shape.

As you may know, the guidelines for sizing the windlass are that the 'max pull' of the windlass should be four times the combined weight of the ground tackle. 12mm chain weighs 3.8kgs/m (vs 2.3kg/m for 10mm) so 380 kgs in total + 55kgs for the anchor = total ground tackle weight of 435kgs. The V4 max pull is 1500kgs so my set-up isn't quite at the 4x level but I figure I'm unlikely to ever need to pull up 100m of chain and anchor when it's hanging freely in over 100m of water so am comfortable with my arrangement! I've had no problems raising the ground tackle and have anchored a couple of times in 20m. FYI the V5's max pull is only 1600kgs so nothing in it really and IMHO not worth going through the hassle of changing (unless your existing windlass is knackered anyway).

In Sardinia this year we were anchored in 48 knots of wind and we didn't move an inch! We were in around 5m with 35m of chain out and held perfectly - like you I always attach an anchor snubber to reduce snatching and we felt safe as houses. Mind you the bimini blew off, but that's another story!!