Just bought our first boat - a Westerly Falcon 34 - need some help!!

[samsuka]

Hi all,

I apologise in advance for the length of this post!! We have just purchased our first boat, a Westerly Falcon 34. Just picked her up from the Hamble yesterday and moved her to Northney Marina, which was a great trip, she sailed very well. I have sailed quite a bit and have my day skipper but sailing a boat and owning a boat are 2 very different things!

So I have a lot of questions that I am hoping you will be able to answer, as its far better to ask the question from people in the know rather than stumble around like a blind man. She was surveyed, but when on hard standing, so some things such as the toilets couldn't be checked, and other things like the gas he deferred to a gas safe engineer. I have downloaded the user manuals I could find and gone through them, but it seems to be for quite a few of the Westerlys so didn’t actually tell me where some things were.

Unfortunately the owner couldn’t (wouldn’t) come down and give us a handover and answer the questions we had, and wasn’t overly responsive to the agents emails, and the agent didn’t know enough about Westerlys to answer them all, and then a last minute leak problem (see below) before we left meant we didn’t have time to go over some of the questions I did have before we left. So I am a bit in the dark about how to run this boat and so I thought by talking to actual Falcon owners then I might be able to get things working successfully.

I am already a member of the Westerly Owners Association and I have also posted this onto their forum but its a lot less active than this one and there are questions that are non-Westerly related and also this forum is more likely to reach ex-Westerly owners.

General boat ownership questions

• Ropes – we seem to have a vast amount of rope in the cockpit, halyards, sheets and control lines, and some of them seem fairly new and far longer than needed. They have replaced some and I think bought more than was needed but then didn’t trim them. As I am not in a position to take them all down and measure them, so is there a general rule of thumb about how much length of rope you should have left once they are their full extension. E.g. once the mainsail is down and the main halyard is at its full extension how much rope should I have in the cockpit? 2m? more?

• Hull polish – quite a bit of sun damage, any recommendations on polishing her up? Topside polish?

• Varnish inside – she needs to be re-varnished inside, recommendation was to rough it up with a 30 grade then a 25 grade sandpaper then re-varnish? Any recommendations on what works well? I have never varnished a boat, and only minimally furniture, so not sure. I don't have the time to lacquer.

• Deck wood - the wooden rail around the outside of the boat, and handles and cockpit flooring are all a bit discoloured (external wood rail is a little green with algae in some areas). Was looking to sand them back and then is it better to use teak oil or varnish?

• Water tank – water has been sitting in it for best part of a year, should I just empty out and then refill or treat it in anyway?


Westerly Falcon specific questions

• External Gas locker – missing key for it, any idea or just a big allen key?

• Socket on the boat for on-shore power – where is it?? I have the lead but haven’t seen the socket!! I think looking back at pictures it might be under the desk chair by the batteries but not on-site now and not going back for a few weeks.

• Toilet seacocks – we have managed to drain the water with the pump handle but I can’t seem to find the seacock to open to allow us to flush the bowl with seawater, or how to discharge from the holding tank. They survey said the tanks are discharged by the manual diaphragm pumps via the toilet outlet seacocks. So i can see that the handle by the toilet pumps it into the sea or tank according to where the above valve is pointed at, but not how to empty the holding tank? I assume i just change the sea/tank handle depending on where we are but any other tips? In the small hatch under the toilet there is a handle but it was almost impossible to move, so I left it on the basis that an actual seacock would surely be easier to move?

They also seem to backfill with blue water, which is great, but again I have no idea where from or how I fill this up, or put in more additive​

• Turn it into a 7-berth – is it easy to get someone to shape the wood board needed to turn the bigger cabin berth into a double?
  
  
• Squeaky steering wheel – it’s a little bit squeaky going forwards, but noticeably so in reverse. The agent said this was OK, but is it? Something that can be resolved? Just sounds like the wires rubbing. Survey said it was fine.
  
  
• Fuel tank – I think it has 2, one under the filler cap and I think one under the aft berth. But it doesn’t have a fuel gauge, apparently he worked out how much fuel it had by looking at the diesel fuel filter, but this seems a bit sketchy!! There is no viewing glass on the tank. Any tips on installing a fuel gauge? Presumably if it has 2 then a normal float wont' work. The manual says use a dipstick but I can’t see one so do I just put something through the filler cap? Also several long pipes/tubes under the cushions in the cabin but no idea what they are used for?
  
  
• Prop shaft - She had been out of the water for a year, so when she went back in we did find a small leak on the propshaft which in a few days had led to 2 buckets of water accumulating in the engine bay. We bailed it out and had an engineer at the marina come and have a look and he said it was designed to leak (??) and to just give the grease holder a few turns and if that didnt work then tighten up the nut on the propshaft. Tightening the grease holder did seem to stop it and we had no extra leaks on the way to Northney and seemed to be no longer leaking when we got there. Thoughts? Is this normal or does it need replacing?
  
  
• Kitchen Sinks – how do they drain? Found a seacock for the seawater tap inlet but not to actually drain them.

Sorry for the length of the post, and undoubtedly i will be back with more, and sorry many of the questions probably seem very simple, but as its our first boat i am hugely erring on the side of caution.

Thanks in advance for any answers.

Sam


#falcon

 

[rotrax]

Westerly Owners Association should be your first stop, followed by a read of Calders excellent book.

A request might get a local owner to give you a heads up.

Good luck.

 

[samsuka]

Hi

Westerly Owners Association should be your first stop, followed by a read of Calders excellent book.

A request might get a local owner to give you a heads up.

Good luck.

Hi Rotrax, i have posted on the WOA already, but their forum is generally less active, and also may not find any ex-Westerly owners who could be of help, and some questions are more general.

Thanks

 

[popeye the sailorman]

Hi all,

I apologise in advance for the length of this post!! We have just purchased our first boat, a Westerly Falcon 34. Just picked her up from the Hamble yesterday and moved her to Northney Marina, which was a great trip, she sailed very well. I have sailed quite a bit and have my day skipper but sailing a boat and owning a boat are 2 very different things!

So I have a lot of questions that I am hoping you will be able to answer, as its far better to ask the question from people in the know rather than stumble around like a blind man. She was surveyed, but when on hard standing, so some things such as the toilets couldn't be checked, and other things like the gas he deferred to a gas safe engineer. I have downloaded the user manuals I could find and gone through them, but it seems to be for quite a few of the Westerlys so didn’t actually tell me where some things were.

Unfortunately the owner couldn’t (wouldn’t) come down and give us a handover and answer the questions we had, and wasn’t overly responsive to the agents emails, and the agent didn’t know enough about Westerlys to answer them all, and then a last minute leak problem (see below) before we left meant we didn’t have time to go over some of the questions I did have before we left. So I am a bit in the dark about how to run this boat and so I thought by talking to actual Falcon owners then I might be able to get things working successfully.

I have also posted this onto the Westerly Owners Association forum but its a lot less active than this one.

General boat ownership questions

• Ropes – we seem to have a vast amount of rope in the cockpit, halyards, sheets and control lines, and some of them seem fairly new and far longer than needed. They have replaced some and I think bought more than was needed but then didn’t trim them. As I am not in a position to take them all down and measure them, so is there a general rule of thumb about how much length of rope you should have left once they are their full extension. E.g. once the mainsail is down and the main halyard is at its full extension how much rope should I have in the cockpit? 2m? more?

• Hull polish – quite a bit of sun damage, any recommendations on polishing her up? Topside polish?

• Varnish inside – she needs to be re-varnished inside, recommendation was to rough it up with a 30 grade then a 25 grade sandpaper then re-varnish? Any recommendations on what works well? I have never varnished a boat, and only minimally furniture, so not sure. I don't have the time to lacquer.

• Deck wood - the wooden rail around the outside of the boat, and handles and cockpit flooring are all a bit discoloured (external wood rail is a little green with algae in some areas). Was looking to sand them back and then is it better to use teak oil or varnish?

• Water tank – water has been sitting in it for best part of a year, should I just empty out and then refill or treat it in anyway?


Westerly Falcon specific questions

• External Gas locker – missing key for it, any idea or just a big allen key?

• Socket on the boat for on-shore power – where is it?? I have the lead but haven’t seen the socket!! I think looking back at pictures it might be under the desk chair by the batteries but not on-site now and not going back for a few weeks.

• Toilet seacocks – we have managed to drain the water with the pump handle but I can’t seem to find the seacock to open to allow us to flush the bowl with seawater, or how to discharge from the holding tank. They survey said the tanks are discharged by the manual diaphragm pumps via the toilet outlet seacocks. So i can see that the handle by the toilet pumps it into the sea or tank according to where the above valve is pointed at, but not how to empty the holding tank? I assume i just change the sea/tank handle depending on where we are but any other tips? In the small hatch under the toilet there is a handle but it was almost impossible to move, so I left it on the basis that an actual seacock would surely be easier to move?

They also seem to backfill with blue water, which is great, but again I have no idea where from or how I fill this up, or put in more additive​

• Turn it into a 7-berth – is it easy to get someone to shape the wood board needed to turn the bigger cabin berth into a double?
  
  
• Squeaky steering wheel – it’s a little bit squeaky going forwards, but noticeably so in reverse. The agent said this was OK, but is it? Something that can be resolved? Just sounds like the wires rubbing. Survey said it was fine.
  
  
• Fuel tank – I think it has 2, one under the filler cap and I think one under the aft berth. But it doesn’t have a fuel gauge, apparently he worked out how much fuel it had by looking at the diesel fuel filter, but this seems a bit sketchy!! There is no viewing glass on the tank. Any tips on installing a fuel gauge? Presumably if it has 2 then a normal float wont' work. The manual says use a dipstick but I can’t see one so do I just put something through the filler cap? Also several long pipes/tubes under the cushions in the cabin but no idea what they are used for?
  
  
• Prop shaft - She had been out of the water for a year, so when she went back in we did find a small leak on the propshaft which in a few days had led to 2 buckets of water accumulating in the engine bay. We bailed it out and had an engineer at the marina come and have a look and he said it was designed to leak (??) and to just give the grease holder a few turns and if that didnt work then tighten up the nut on the propshaft. Tightening the grease holder did seem to stop it and we had no extra leaks on the way to Northney and seemed to be no longer leaking when we got there. Thoughts? Is this normal or does it need replacing?
  
  
• Kitchen Sinks – how do they drain? Found a seacock for the seawater tap inlet but not to actually drain them.

Sorry for the length of the post, and undoubtedly i will be back with more, and sorry many of the questions probably seem very simple, but as its our first boat i am hugely erring on the side of caution.

Thanks in advance for any answers.

Sam


#falcon

Hi Samsuka.
May I suggest joining Westerly owners club. For just £17.00 Per year there is a vast pool of experience and knowledge available.
To be specific there is a members only section called boatline showing the different classes of boat. It gives you access to members who own boats and are prepared to advise you.
Yes you are right to say the activity on there can be slow, be patient.
In addition to the website there is a Facebook page too.
Best of luck you will soon know your boat inside and out!!

 

[samsuka]

Hi Samsuka.
May I suggest joining Westerly owners club. For just £17.00 Per year there is a vast pool of experience and knowledge available.
To be specific there is a members only section called boatline showing the different classes of boat. It gives you access to members who own boats and are prepared to advise you.
Yes you are right to say the activity on there can be slow, be patient.
In addition to the website there is a Facebook page too.
Best of luck you will soon know your boat inside and out!!

Hi Popeye, i am already a member thankyou, as mentioned i have already posted this on their forum as well, but some of the questions are not purely for Westerlys and also ex-Westerly owners may be more likely to see them here. And generally its just so much busier on this forum. I have been through most of their information already.

Am getting to know her intimately!!

 

[graham]

25 grit sandpaper is far too rough for sanding varnish work.something around 120 grit would be more appropriate .

The inlet socket for your shore power is likely to be in a cockpit locker .

Your surveyor could and should have checked the seacocks were all serviceable.If the handle takes great force to move then the valve needs servicing if it is a blakes type or replacing if it is a ball valve type.

 

[doug748]

"• Varnish inside – she needs to be re-varnished inside, recommendation was to rough it up with a 30 grade then a 25 grade sandpaper then re-varnish? Any recommendations on what works well? I have never varnished a boat, and only minimally furniture, so not sure. I don't have the time to lacquer."

I have no particular knowledge about Westerly but most makers or the era used a spray lacquered finish, often matt or semi matt. Some boats have been spoiled by sloshing on conventional gloss yacht varnish.
Concerto has a Fulmar, posts on here and has some good tips - you might search his posts or he may even be along soon to chip in.


.

 

[Bristolfashion]

Vyv Cox has some good descriptions on the various types of stern gear on his site

Cox Engineering

With teak, just be careful not to scrub along the grain - it removes the softer timber fibres. Try soaking and then a very gentle brush across the grain. Various teak cleaners / restorers are available after that. Think carefully whether you want to treat the teak with oil or varnish and enter a lifetime of maintenance or just enjoy the natural look.

 

[Chae_73]

@Concerto has a wealth of information about varnishing the inside of Westerlys, and many other things about them too! Search the forum for some of his Fulmar threads which contain links to ppts etc.

 

[Poecheng]

Ropes –

Personal choice really. 2m doesn't sound wrong. Try and whip them with a loop at the end for easier threading and taking out for cleaning etc.

• Hull polish – quite a bit of sun damage, any recommendations on polishing her up? Topside polish?

Polish
Gelcoat Cutting Compound and Wax

It is an involved process and you may as well do it properly when you do it. THere are quick and easy fixes but if you have time then getting the surface corrected is worth it in the long term.

• Varnish inside – she needs to be re-varnished inside, recommendation was to rough it up with a 30 grade then a 25 grade sandpaper then re-varnish? Any recommendations on what works well? I have never varnished a boat, and only minimally furniture, so not sure. I don't have the time to lacquer.

As said already, this is far too rough and will destroy the veneer.

• Deck wood - the wooden rail around the outside of the boat, and handles and cockpit flooring are all a bit discoloured (external wood rail is a little green with algae in some areas). Was looking to sand them back and then is it better to use teak oil or varnish?

Clean off with water first - not jet wash - and then put Boracol or Patio Magic on and leave for a while (week or two). It should go silvered and clean and then see if you are ok with that. If you are it saves a lot of effort and many find it attractive.

• Water tank – water has been sitting in it for best part of a year, should I just empty out and then refill or treat it in anyway?
Taste/smell the water. Probably ok but if not, get a bit of bleach in or one of the proprietary tank cleaners.

 

[samsuka]

Thanks Poecheng, very helpful

 

[Tranona]

Shorepower lead and plug. Normally inlet plug is in the cockpit - various types of fitting, some under a flap, others an obvious plug sticking out with a round cover that unscrews. Some fitted inside locker with a cut out in the lid for the cable to come in.

Interior varnish. The original is a lacquer and as suggested Concerto is the expert on how to do this. However once you have seen his videos of how to do it properly you will realise it is not a trivial task. There are other ways of doing it if it is just dull, but if there there is any staining or water damage there are really no short cuts.

External woodwork. Clean with a teak cleaner to get rid of the green and the dirt then either leave bare or sand and coat - my preference is International Woodskin rather than conventional varnish.

Toilet, follow the 3/4" inlet hose to find the seawater inlet valve which is likely to be a Blakes which is opened and closed by turning the handle. How they work and how to service here yachtingmonthly.com/gear/servicing-a-blakes-seacocks-73248 Outlet is the same only bigger.

Holding tank. This will not be original and there several different types and methods of operation. Sounds like you have a remote pumped system, probably with diverter valves. Information on different layouts (below waterline systems) here tek-tanks.com/sanitation-systems/holding-tank-plumbing-and-layouts/ This may help you identify how yours is laid out.

Squeaky steering You need to identify type and make of steering - suspect it will be a cable type either Lewmar or Edson. Squeak could be from the wheel end, in the cables or in the rudder bearings.

Stuffing box on prop shaft. How they work and how to service here pbo.co.uk/expert-advice/expert-answers/how-to-repack-a-stern-gland-step-by-step-1031

Fuel tank. Not familiar with the specific installation, but if it does not have a gauge then you can add one through the top. However in many cases this is physically not possible without removing the tank. Alternatives are a dip stick through the filler it it is straight down or more simply. fill it to the brim and keep a record of hours then refill. Expect your average consumption (30hp engine?) will be 2L an hour.

Think all your other general questions have been answered already.

Enjoy your new boat - you will soon get the hang of what is what.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Vyv Cox has some good descriptions on the various types of stern gear on his site

Cox Engineering

With teak, just be careful not to scrub along the grain - it removes the softer timber fibres. Try soaking and then a very gentle brush across the grain. Various teak cleaners / restorers are available after that. Think carefully whether you want to treat the teak with oil or varnish and enter a lifetime of maintenance or just enjoy the natural look.

Also, keep green algae at bay with an annual spray of Patio Magic or similar preparation diluted 4 or 5:1. Spray deck, teak and running rigging. Do it on the hard to spare marine life.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Ropes –

Personal choice really. 2m doesn't sound wrong. Try and whip them with a loop at the end for easier threading and taking out for cleaning etc.

• Hull polish – quite a bit of sun damage, any recommendations on polishing her up? Topside polish?

Polish
Gelcoat Cutting Compound and Wax

It is an involved process and you may as well do it properly when you do it. THere are quick and easy fixes but if you have time then getting the surface corrected is worth it in the long term.

• Varnish inside – she needs to be re-varnished inside, recommendation was to rough it up with a 30 grade then a 25 grade sandpaper then re-varnish? Any recommendations on what works well? I have never varnished a boat, and only minimally furniture, so not sure. I don't have the time to lacquer.

As said already, this is far too rough and will destroy the veneer.

• Deck wood - the wooden rail around the outside of the boat, and handles and cockpit flooring are all a bit discoloured (external wood rail is a little green with algae in some areas). Was looking to sand them back and then is it better to use teak oil or varnish?

Clean off with water first - not jet wash - and then put Boracol or Patio Magic on and leave for a while (week or two). It should go silvered and clean and then see if you are ok with that. If you are it saves a lot of effort and many find it attractive.

• Water tank – water has been sitting in it for best part of a year, should I just empty out and then refill or treat it in anyway?
Taste/smell the water. Probably ok but if not, get a bit of bleach in or one of the proprietary tank cleaners.

Campden tablets.

 

[Concerto]

Hi


Hi Rotrax, i have posted on the WOA already, but their forum is generally less active, and also may not find any ex-Westerly owners who could be of help, and some questions are more general.

Thanks

Lengthy reply just posted on the Westerly Owners forum - less than 2 hours after the original post!

 

[black mercury]

There should be two tanks under the aft berth, they should be both fresh water tanks. The fuel tank is in the cockpit locker. If it has a sight tube it will be positioned behind the tank, you need to have your head in the locker and a torch to see it.
The outlet from the galley sink should be directly below it under a wooden panel which you lift out.
A big Allen key would be the easiest solution for the gas locker.
The cables from the wheel do need lubricated occasionally. You get to the quadrant from the cockpit locker and removing a panel in the bulkhead to get round the stern. There is also a panel in the aft berth directly under the pedestal. Also at the top of the pedestal there could be a compass which when removed will give access to the steering chain, spray some chain lube in there.

 

[ashtead]

It would seem that you might prioritise tasks and lots of advice above but a few thoughts:
1 Seacocks -consider replacing them over winter -people seem to flavour the plastic type now and one less worry for future;
2 Fuel tanks -how clean are they ? Can you remove them and replace and fit a sender unit? I guess there must be someone out there who has replaced in your model; you might also want to consider the fuel filters at same time;
3 teak - just clean for now but variety of treatments -we use Seemco which another alternative;
4 steering - this sounds most pressing issue -if you want more thoughts take a few photos and post on here-
5 holding tank-leave alone but pipes might need replacement -don’t buy cheap buy quality waste pipes and replace over winter;
6 water tank -pour in you half bottle of Milton or supermarket equivalent -half a small bottle with the water topped up and leave and then empty tanks -you can use tablets if preferred .
7 stern gland -thought they always leaked on westerly and you just turned the greaser Half a turn but you might want to invest in a more modern non leaking solution ?
Enjoy your winter at Northney -the hotel is fine if you want to wind down if it’s still open if a little basic.

 

[Concerto]

It would seem that you might prioritise tasks and lots of advice above but a few thoughts:
1 Seacocks -consider replacing them over winter -people seem to flavour the plastic type now and one less worry for future;
2 Fuel tanks -how clean are they ? Can you remove them and replace and fit a sender unit? I guess there must be someone out there who has replaced in your model; you might also want to consider the fuel filters at same time;
3 teak - just clean for now but variety of treatments -we use Seemco which another alternative;
4 steering - this sounds most pressing issue -if you want more thoughts take a few photos and post on here-
5 holding tank-leave alone but pipes might need replacement -don’t buy cheap buy quality waste pipes and replace over winter;
6 water tank -pour in you half bottle of Milton or supermarket equivalent -half a small bottle with the water topped up and leave and then empty tanks -you can use tablets if preferred .
7 stern gland -thought they always leaked on westerly and you just turned the greaser Half a turn but you might want to invest in a more modern non leaking solution ?
Enjoy your winter at Northney -the hotel is fine if you want to wind down if it’s still open if a little basic.

Westerly normally used Blakes seacocks. These are considered to be the best available (Rolls Royce type quality) and provided they are well lubricated, they will never need to be replaced. If you were talking of standard gate valves, especially made of brass rather than bronze or DZR, I would agree with you.

 

[samsuka]

Lengthy reply just posted on the Westerly Owners forum - less than 2 hours after the original post!

haha thankyou Roger, and thankyou to everyone else, this is one of the reasons i love sailing, the community is so willing to help. I hadn't realised it was lacquer so will have to look at this.

Looks like i am going to be spending quite a few days over winter on board with a sanding paper and brush and a lot more investigation is needed. The yacht broker had said that one of the tank in the aft cabin was diesel but it makes more sense that its water.

 

[Concerto]

haha thankyou Roger, and thankyou to everyone else, this is one of the reasons i love sailing, the community is so willing to help. I hadn't realised it was lacquer so will have to look at this.

Looks like i am going to be spending quite a few days over winter on board with a sanding paper and brush and a lot more investigation is needed. The yacht broker had said that one of the tank in the aft cabin was diesel but it makes more sense that its water.

Always pleased to help.