junk rig

[manish]

hey guys i was wondering has anyone got or has had a junk rig boat in the past??? if so pls can you let me know what it was or is to sail like as im rather intersted in getting a coromandel. im partiularly interested in single handed sailing and teaching my nephews and niece to sail. maybe a junk would be easyer for a 3 6 and 8 yearold to understand. many thanks and a merry xmas incase im not around /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[mainmarine]

I used to have a junk rigged Newbridge Navigator 19ft, the kids liked to sail it as it didn't heel but it was pretty slow and there was not much to do to when sailing it. I changed it to bermudian after a while. The Navigator is not renowned for her performance, I think the Cormandel would be better.

 

[Searush]

I see one near us plugging up & down the Lleyn peninsula & thro' Bardsey sound. Looks a game little boat & certainly no sluggard, the tides can run 4-5kts in the Sound - but you'd have to be a nutter to try to head them in a raggie.

Also know a guy on another forum that sails his in & out of a mud berth on the East coast - and he's only recently converted from a MoBo! I'll see if he will post on here for you.

 

[Superflid]

That'd be me then!

I've been sailing a Coromandel for just a few months, but am happy enough with the performance.

What looks complex to begin with quickly becomes clear, I've managed to learn to sail it without having set foot on another junk rigged boat or even having a junk sailor on mine!

It's a far more relaxed method of sailing than bermudan, less heeling, no noise from sails and almost too easy. Reefing is done in seconds without standing up, tacking is accomplished by putting the helm over. I have heard from one ex-junk sailor who only went back to bermudan 'cos it was so easy he got bored!

If you're going to be taking kids onboard you'll have more time to keep an eye on them.....

To preempt the comments you'll get about a junk not being able to sail to windward (mainly from folk who've never sailed a junk /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif ), I'm happy to take anyone out on my boat while I demonstrate tacking through 90 degrees. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[FAITIRA]

I sailed a Colvic 29 for a few years, junk rig, I found it novel, easy in some respects, not a great performer, though she could pop along ok on a reach, but totally different technique to bermudian or indeed gaff. In short, I wouldn,t personally be a fan. The 29 was heavy, no ability to heave to.
Regards teaching the chilren to sail, it,s different, but if it gets them on the water great, one advantage, maybe a big one, no flapping alarming noises from the sail!!!! Good Luck With The Children, Bill.

 

[corkonian1]

You would expect all those these sheetlets and blocks etc. to get into a woeful tangle and snag at every opportunity.Have you ever had the situation where the sail did not drop or could not be raised through a block getting twisted or rope jamming?I would expect raising the sail to involve untangling a rats nest of blocks and ropes.

 

[FAITIRA]

No, in fairness to the rig, once the parrells were set up properly it was tedious to hoist, because of the purchase halliard, but to drop/reef very easy, i.e. nothing to do but let it go. Also the sheets were not a prob apart from the sheer amount/length of rope.
I am not a great fan of Junk, but it has, like all rigs, it,s points, some very good, but not enough for me, though I enjoyed the interesting opportunity to sail one for a few years, up and down the W Coast of Scotland, when I was sadlly, having to WORK.

 

[FAITIRA]

[ QUOTE ]
That'd be me then!

I've been sailing a Coromandel for just a few months, but am happy enough with the performance.

What looks complex to begin with quickly becomes clear, I've managed to learn to sail it without having set foot on another junk rigged boat or even having a junk sailor on mine!

It's a far more relaxed method of sailing than bermudan, less heeling, no noise from sails and almost too easy. Reefing is done in seconds without standing up, tacking is accomplished by putting the helm over. I have heard from one ex-junk sailor who only went back to bermudan 'cos it was so easy he got bored!

If you're going to be taking kids onboard you'll have more time to keep an eye on them.....

To preempt the comments you'll get about a junk not being able to sail to windward (mainly from folk who've never sailed a junk /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif ), I'm happy to take anyone out on my boat while I demonstrate tacking through 90 degrees. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I did not read your post before I put my last one up, appologies! But I agree with all you say about the junk, well put! Bill.

 

[Gordonmc]

Apros pos of nothing really, I thought this was pretty:

Seen in the Kyles of Bute a few weeks ago (its not raining so might be more!).
Proof, if that is needed that junk rigs can be handy to windward.
If anyone knows the skipper, I can let them have some pics.

 

[William_H]

I value windward performance of my or any other boat of top priority. That is next to and including reefing in so much as a boat must have the correct amount of sail for the amount of wind.
I very much value the slot effect between my jib even when tiny and the mainsail of a fractional rig. In addition the jib in luffing is really easy to keep the boat right on the wind.
If you are teaching kids, more specifically setting up for them to learn them selves, then a boat that won't point can be very disheartening. A boat that points well can tolerate a lot of inaccuracy in helming and still get you up wind.
Proper reefing on a bermudan need not be a chore. Just work on getting it fast flat and convenient. Obviously jib changing can be a challenge but then careful anticipation of weather can alleviate much of that. A jib to small will often work well anyway.

So although I have never sailed a junk rig I can't imagine they could compare to a well set up good performance sloop.

Our yacht club own a fllet of 10ft f/g dinghies for training that have a little jib and main and reefing provision. Unfortunately after they have learnt to sail the first level racing boat has a main only and that on a gaff. They have a great deal of difficulty getting the gaff rig to windward and seem to want to return to the original trainers. I guess they learn more skill and patience in the gaff rig but it is hard for them. Mind you I advocate kids learning to sail in a keel boat about 20ft. So much easier than a dinghy. You want the kids to love sailing first and foremost so be gentle with them.

olewill

 

[cliffordpope]

I'd love to have a real traditional Chinese junk, but somehow terylene sails on a plastic imitation junk just looks silly to me.

 

[Boatmik]

[ QUOTE ]
Apros pos of nothing really, I thought this was pretty:

Seen in the Kyles of Bute a few weeks ago (its not raining so might be more!).
Proof, if that is needed that junk rigs can be handy to windward.
If anyone knows the skipper, I can let them have some pics.

[/ QUOTE ]

Beautiful pic of a beaut looking boat. It is on a beam reach though.

MIK

 

[Boatmik]

Howdy,

I agree with a couple of the posts above - that a boat that is set up properly - whatever the rig - is the best way to learn.

The same constants everyone has to deal with ...

That the wind is not constant in direction or strength. The only way to get things right is to understand trim and understand steering.

Someone who understands can jump in any boat because they have grasped the principles.

A boat that sails well is a bonus - as there is such a difference between doing the right thing and kinda getting it right.

With a boat that is a poor performer there is only a subtle reward in improved performance when you get things right - so hard for beginners to tell when they have things right.

Best wishes and good on you for wanting to introduce some young 'uns to sailing!
Michael Storer

 

[NealB]

[ QUOTE ]
That'd be me then!

I have heard from one ex-junk sailor who only went back to bermudan 'cos it was so easy he got bored!

/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That'll be me then!! Fancy 'seeing' you here!

I sailed a Coromandel round the East Coast for three years. A great rig for single-handing, and, as others have said, very relaxing to sail.

I found her windward performance very acceptable, but she needed to be sailed 'full and by' - the junk doesn't give immediate feedback if you try to pinch, you just lose speed and make leeway.

Eventually I started to miss having things to fiddle with, and bought an old gaff cutter (complete with topsail, so lots to amuse me).

 

[2nd_apprentice]

Just for the record: the above junk is Duma, a Forrestier 12M. Wooden boats (strip plank) usually home built. Beautiful design if you're looking for an authentic junk.

http://www.jonquedeplaisance.net/eng_index.html

The coromandel seems to be a very fine little boat for those who seek something a bit smaller /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[jleaworthy]

Been sailing a junk rigged Newbridge Pioneer (26') since 2000. Performance is much as you would expect from a tubby twin keeler with a single sail - the harder the wind blows, the better she performs.

Undoubtedly the major advantage of a junk is for short handed sailing - it has the safest reefing system of all. Whereas ALL other reefing systems fail dangerously (if a highly stressed reefing line or roller system fails you end up with more sail than you want or can handle) with a junk the only stressed component is the halliard; if that fails the sail collapses into its lazy jacks, probaby not at the most convenient moment but better than having acres of sail cloth hammering away in a rising gale!

The mast is much further forward than a conventional rig and an unexpected bonus is that I can stow an 8' dinghy on deck between mast and spray hood.

If you can live with the compromises it's a good cruising rig.

 

[Bajansailor]

Just a general comment - here is a rather gorgeous wee junk called China Cloud - have a look at http://www.setsail.com/s_logs/deridder/dragon46.html
and scroll down a bit.

Edit - have a look also at the Jester Forum - there is a fair amount of info re junk rigs there.

 

[Superflid]

[ QUOTE ]


So although I have never sailed a junk rig I can't imagine they could compare to a well set up good performance sloop.

olewill

[/ QUOTE ]

Now your opinions are usually worth their weight in gold, but that just goes to prove my point, a lot of folk will knock them without ever setting foot onboard....

 

[Superflid]

[ QUOTE ]
It is on a beam reach though.

MIK

[/ QUOTE ]

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Either you're right and the skipper knows nothing about sailing a junk, or he's sailing it well and..... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Searush]

[ QUOTE ]

Beautiful pic of a beaut looking boat. It is on a beam reach though.

MIK

[/ QUOTE ]

Err, that's not what his burgees suggest. Looks pretty close winded to me. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I must admit the sloop in the background had me flummoxed for a while, but he seems to be dead in the water whereas the junk is creaming along! Could the photo be revese printed?

Having sailed Clyde/ Western Isles myself, I am used to sailing round headlands (thro' 90deg) and remaining on the same beat but those two boats seem to be trimmed for winds 180deg apart! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif But, as noted, the junk is moving & the sloop is stopped!