Jotun antifouling feedback..

Are there any suppliers/stockists of Jotun in Southern Ireland??
Perhaps a group buy from there would be best option.
BTW Jellyellies AF wasn't Seaforce or Seaguardian, it was seamate.
 
I've used Sea Queen for last 4 years, but ran into problems getting it from Shepherds last year (winter 13/14), but Bayside supplied in the end after an initial indication there were difficulties even then, but neither Shepherds nor Bayside could supply this last Autumn & Jotun stall @ SBS could only sell Mare Nostrum, which was double the cost & of unproved efficacy (unlike Sea Queen, which was excellent). In the end purchased EU45 @ SBS on offer for £45 per 2.5l tin inc postage, as decent copper content. Will report back how it performs next winter.
 
In the past you could build a house or school for that matter with asbestos containing products, you could ride without a crash helmet, smoke in public, drive without a seat belt, drive with a child in the front seat, buy paint with lead in it(you still can for certain uses!), buy Petrol with lead in it(you still can for certain uses/or as an additive), buy paint with solvent from a DIY superstore, buy a household vac with a powerful motor (you still can for certain uses), buy antifouling with tin in it or as an additive (you still can on the internet). Even professional car painters used to use paint with solvent in it. (some still do I have been informed)
You could do your own household electrical and gas repairs in the past ... not now !
I have just had a log burner fitted (cost a fortune and had to comply with all sorts of stuff) I would have fitted it myself 30 years ago.
The list is endless I am sure.
Although initially irritated at not being able to get any, I think giving a paint company or the chandler a hard time for complying with the law is not right .. perhaps their only mistake was letting us get hold of it in the first place ?
We used Mare Nostrum last season (swinging tidal mooring) and found it just fine, perhaps a little slime around my waterline that cleaned off fairly easily and maybe not as good as our old Seaforce 30 but for the money it was ok and worked as they described at the boatshow.
Quite cheap compared to some of the others in the chandlers (although we have talked to others who used it with varying results).

K&J
 
Here's an email i have received from Jotun regarding Seaqueen ( no longer produced anywhere and seaforce ).
it seems that Jotun just need to get across that they have to comply with HSE laws and guidelines.


Regarding distribution of Seaforce 30 and SeaQueen.


Jotun A/S is the holder of all intellectual property rights (IPR) in the Jotun group of companies.

Some of Jotun's products are subject to strict HSE rules. This applies both to SeaQueen and SeaForce 30 sold by distributors in the UK.

Seaqueen
It is clearly stated in the approval from the UK authority that SeaQueen is only allowed for professional users. It is therefore illegal to sell SeaQueen to the general public (regardless of what health and safety info is on the label).

SeaForce 30
The labelling of the SeaForce 30 product does not allow for it to be sold to the general public.

In order to protect the IPR, the quality of our products and to fulfill HSE legal requirements, Jotun has incorporated strict corporate guidelines regarding labeling and canning of our products. This position is reflected in our standard distribution agreements.
As long as Jotun is aware of the fact that our professional products are sold into the DIY-market we face the risk of being held responsible for damages if we are not actively trying to prevent this marketing.

Hope that helps. I understand the 'professional' use has been an issue and i'm sure it is not meant to upset us in the leisure market. The issue it seems is mainly an HSE one. So I guess we will all have to either use the Jotun yachting products, mare nostrum etc.. or find another product as good. or all become 'professional' !!
 
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Bayside Marine Chandlery said:
Here's an email i have received from Jotun regarding Seaqueen ( no longer produced anywhere and seaforce ).
it seems that Jotun just need to get across that they have to comply with HSE laws and guidelines.


Regarding distribution of Seaforce 30 and SeaQueen.


Jotun A/S is the holder of all intellectual property rights (IPR) in the Jotun group of companies.

Some of Jotun's products are subject to strict HSE rules. This applies both to SeaQueen and SeaForce 30 sold by distributors in the UK.

Seaqueen
It is clearly stated in the approval from the UK authority that SeaQueen is only allowed for professional users. It is therefore illegal to sell SeaQueen to the general public (regardless of what health and safety info is on the label).

SeaForce 30
The labelling of the SeaForce 30 product does not allow for it to be sold to the general public.

In order to protect the IPR, the quality of our products and to fulfill HSE legal requirements, Jotun has incorporated strict corporate guidelines regarding labeling and canning of our products. This position is reflected in our standard distribution agreements.
As long as Jotun is aware of the fact that our professional products are sold into the DIY-market we face the risk of being held responsible for damages if we are not actively trying to prevent this marketing.
Click to expand...

Is there not a bit of disengenous wording there?

OK, so Seaqueen was apparently only approved for professional use (and we all knew that) but is now discontinued anyway

But the response about Seaforce is rather different, it merely says that the labelling on the product doesn't allow it to be sold to the general public. Nothing there about it not being approved for sale to the public, just that the labelling doesn't allow it. Implication being that they could, if they wished, change the labelling

Since it appears that Seaforce is available retail elsewhere in the EU it still looks as though this is a marketing decision rather than anything they have been forced to do
 
I also always use Sea Guardian but last year I only had enough to do half the hull so had to settle for Mare Nostrum. I was hoping to view the results when hauled out laxt year but the boatyard took it out a day earlier so didn't see the comparison.
I'm probably going for EU45 this year if I can't get Jotun, but would be interested if anyone can get a deal from another supplier.
 
Bayside Marine Chandlery said:
Here's an email i have received from Jotun regarding Seaqueen ( no longer produced anywhere and seaforce ).
it seems that Jotun just need to get across that they have to comply with HSE laws and guidelines.


Regarding distribution of Seaforce 30 and SeaQueen.


Jotun A/S is the holder of all intellectual property rights (IPR) in the Jotun group of companies.

Some of Jotun's products are subject to strict HSE rules. This applies both to SeaQueen and SeaForce 30 sold by distributors in the UK.

Seaqueen
It is clearly stated in the approval from the UK authority that SeaQueen is only allowed for professional users. It is therefore illegal to sell SeaQueen to the general public (regardless of what health and safety info is on the label).

SeaForce 30
The labelling of the SeaForce 30 product does not allow for it to be sold to the general public.

In order to protect the IPR, the quality of our products and to fulfill HSE legal requirements, Jotun has incorporated strict corporate guidelines regarding labeling and canning of our products. This position is reflected in our standard distribution agreements.
As long as Jotun is aware of the fact that our professional products are sold into the DIY-market we face the risk of being held responsible for damages if we are not actively trying to prevent this marketing.

Hope that helps. I understand the 'professional' use has been an issue and i'm sure it is not meant to upset us in the leisure market. The issue it seems is mainly an HSE one. So I guess we will all have to either use the Jotun yachting products, mare nostrum etc.. or find another product as good. or all become 'professional' !!
Click to expand...


This has been my understanding all along. Seaqueen is still (or should be ) available for yards to apply in the UK
 
Erbas said:
Is there not a bit of disengenous wording there?

OK, so Seaqueen was apparently only approved for professional use (and we all knew that) but is now discontinued anyway

But the response about Seaforce is rather different, it merely says that the labelling on the product doesn't allow it to be sold to the general public. Nothing there about it not being approved for sale to the public, just that the labelling doesn't allow it. Implication being that they could, if they wished, change the labelling

Since it appears that Seaforce is available retail elsewhere in the EU it still looks as though this is a marketing decision rather than anything they have been forced to do
Click to expand...

Totally agree as there seems to one rule for some and not for others and lets face it it is not rocket science to change the labeling, it says on cigarettes they will kill you but you can still buy them, and what about products like Nitromors, you sure don't want any of that on your skin or even worse in your eyes which the bottle warns about on the label ,but anyone can buy it no problem.
 
We need a bit of clarity here chaps,

SeaQUEEN has been discontinued and is no longer available anywhere

It was Seaqueen which was always, technically, only approved for professional application. We never should have been able to buy it retail in truth

SeaFORCE is the replacement for Seaqueen (as I understand it anyway) and it is unclear what it's approval status is.

From the wording of the reply from Jotun, and the fact that it remains available over the counter elsehwhere in the EU, I'm guessing that it is EU approved for retail sale but that is a guess! (It may be the case that Jotun haven't caught on to / caught up with distributors elsewhere who are selling the stuff retail when they shouldn't be)

Whether Seaforce is as good as Seaqueen I don't know. All the indications are, though, that Mare Nostrum, which Jotun would have us buying instead, is not much use
 
Caer Urfa said:
Totally agree as there seems to one rule for some and not for others and lets face it it is not rocket science to change the labeling, it says on cigarettes they will kill you but you can still buy them, and what about products like Nitromors, you sure don't want any of that on your skin or even worse in your eyes which the bottle warns about on the label ,but anyone can buy it no problem.
Click to expand...
Nitromors has been made so weak recently I don't use it in my work. I consequently use a stripper which is labelled 'for professional use only'. What this means to me is that I had to email a letterhead and business details, such as website. The supplier then had to send a paper form which I signed and they now have on file for when I reorder. They check this every time. I cant remember all the ins and outs of the form, it basically relinquishes them of any liability if I breath in the fumes, dab it on my skin or drink it. It is very strong stuff and certainly does the job. It is not for sale to the general public because it has an ingredient that is 'banned' by EU for public use (prob because they would kill themselves with it and then try to sue someone)?
 
Seashoreman said:
Please see my comment No.57
Click to expand...

So (very glibly) I set up a website on some free hosting site, design a letterhead for my new business as "Fantasie19 Small Boat Services - Est'd 2015" wander into my local chandler with same and job's a good'un?

VAT registration - not sure, but I thought you had to guarantee a certain turnover before that was applied and I guess a number of small businesses don't meet that criteria??

Be interested in the OP's thoughts - what criteria would you need met before you'd sell a person this stuff?
 
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