Jordan Series Drogue, some practical questions

[Fascadale]

I have decided to make myself a JSD this winter.

The available literature specifies the use of "braid on braid" for a rope that tapers towards the chain end.

What is the recommended way (in a JSD) of joining the ropes of different sizes to create this taper?

Should the leader be a separate rope from the one with the droguelets on it?

What is the advantage of using braid on braid rather than single braid or multiplait.

The stretch in these ropes is within a couple of % points using Marlow "dockline" (single braid), "doublebraid" and "multiplait" of similar size. The load characteristics are also satisfactory.

Thanks

 

[Aeolus]

Hi there,

I'm in the process of making my JS drogue. I was advised to use nylon braid on braid and, for my drogue with 100 cones, I'm using 16mm for the bridle and the first half and 13mm for the second half. I bought it from barry edwards via e-bay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Doublebraid-d...UK_Sporting_Goods_Sailing&hash=item4ce4d4ae37 .

I've had a loop spliced into the end of each rope and will pass the ropes through each others loop to join them (hope that makes sense).

An advantage of braid-on braid are that you fix the cones to the outer braid and the inner braid retains its full strength. Not sure what single braid you have in mind - the only such I know of is dyneema and you want something with some stretch in it. You shouldn't use three strand rope - I believe that Jordan found that it can unwind under proplonged stress.

Not sure how you woudl attach the cones to multiplait - the gaps between the strands are relatively large and the knotted ribbons that hold the cones might slip out - but maybe that's rubbish.

Takes quite a lot of time and is fairly tedious - I'm up to number 75 so only 25 to go!!

 

[Fascadale]

Hi there,

I'm in the process of making my JS drogue. I was advised to use nylon braid on braid and, for my drogue with 100 cones, I'm using 16mm for the bridle and the first half and 13mm for the second half. I bought it from barry edwards via e-bay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Doublebraid-d...UK_Sporting_Goods_Sailing&hash=item4ce4d4ae37

Takes quite a lot of time and is fairly tedious - I'm up to number 75 so only 25 to go!!

Thanks.

Well done on the progress so far. I'm not looking forward to this project.

Did the advice say why it was best to use the braid on braid and how do you plan to join the 16mm to the 13mm

Are you planning to splice in hard eyes at the chain and bridle ends?

Sorry to be asking so many questions but I want to know what I'm letting myself in for.

 

[Fascadale]

I think I may have just "laked" myself

 

[Aeolus]

Nope - my fault - I kept editing my post adding bits of info. Hard eye only at the furthermost end - for the anchor/ chain / weight

 

[Fascadale]

I had considered the multiplait because it flakes down more easily a would take up less space in the (26ft) boat. I had thought that I might splice the cone tapes into the rope.

I suspect I should just stick to the recommended method; no sense going to all the work for it to fail when required.

I see the "cow hitch" for joining the two ropes but I think maybe hard eyes for the bridle and chain

 

[Aeolus]

Out of interest - how many cones do you plan to use - I guess your boat will be well below the 10,000lb which is the smallest size for which the JSD website shows the number of cones. My boat is around 8800lb so I decided to go for 100 cones (altho I may decide that 95 are enough) but you may need fewer.

 

[Watson47]

Fascadale ... very interesting post .. ! I hadn't heard of this Drogue and I am intrigued by the concept, having just now 'googled' Jordan Series Drogue.

May I ask where you got the cones & literature, etc .. ? I have found 'Neptunes Locker' are a possible stockist via;

http://www.oceanbrake.com/index.html

... but at 25 tons, I am not sure whether I would have room to store it .. ! I currrently use a modified 1-ton 'builders bag', which though not the easiest to deploy, works every well.

 

[Fascadale]

Hi Watson47

I have not yet started purchasing the parts yet but I think I will get the bits from various suppliers. Aeolus' recommendation for the rope seem good, and I'm sure the internet will yield a source for the webbing and cone material.

I'm not sure where the 25 ton figure comes from but I don't envisage the finished item being that weight.

Have you seen the various film clips on Youtube? It shows detail of the manufacture of the JSD and the JSD in use.........interesting viewing.

I got most of the information from the Jordan website.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Fascadale ... very interesting post .. ! I hadn't heard of this Drogue and I am intrigued by the concept, having just now 'googled' Jordan Series Drogue.

One of these, isn't it?

 

[barnaclephill]

Hi Watson47

I think I will get the bits from various suppliers.

I'm not sure where the 25 ton figure comes from but I don't envisage the finished item being that weight.

I got most of the information from the Jordan website.

Fascadale, look here also: http://www.seriesdrogue.com/workshop/

Bryan will also sell you the ready-made cones, give plenty of advice and even if you don't want to buy "rope" from this side of the world, he was very helpful to me, to cut my costs.

His website pages has the CoastGuard report in full, and the recommendations for the various yacht tonnages and the number of cones.

The bridle length is based on the width of your boat's rear cleats that'll do the attachment. Bryan recommended only soft eyes in the braid for the whole drogue except for where the chain is attached. Chafe is most important.

I bought the thing as a kit: I got him to make all the eye splices (I don't know how), and put in 107 cones, and then wrapped sewing thread around the last 7. (To fit my present yacht, but 107 will do my next yacht. ).

Crocheting the cones on gets easier and quicker with the practice, but can be done in about 5 evenings of about an hour or 1 1/2 hours a night.

My line is not tapered. I think it isn't essential, but you can always e-mail the Bryan or the guy from www.jordanseriesdrogue.com if he does kits.

 

[Fascadale]

Out of interest - how many cones do you plan to use - I guess your boat will be well below the 10,000lb which is the smallest size for which the JSD website shows the number of cones. My boat is around 8800lb so I decided to go for 100 cones (altho I may decide that 95 are enough) but you may need fewer.

I don't know yet is the simple answer. I thought I might ask a more mathematically minded chum whether it was possible to extrapolate the Jordan figures to give sizes for c.6,000 lbs boat.

I don't suppose it would do any harm to have more cones on a longer line than you strictly need, but I suspect I'll give up making them when I think I've just crossed the threshold.

 

[Watson47]

I think there may be another forumite knitting a Jordan Series Drogue by the fireside this Winter ... I am currently checking how many cones and just how long a Series Drogue would be required for a 25 ton boat. Maybe we will have economies of scale and be able to order a job-lot of cones, etc.

Hi Watson47

I have not yet started purchasing the parts yet but I think I will get the bits from various suppliers. Aeolus' recommendation for the rope seem good, and I'm sure the internet will yield a source for the webbing and cone material.

I'm not sure where the 25 ton figure comes from but I don't envisage the finished item being that weight.

I should have made it clearer & just in case it's of any use, the link I posted earlier is to a UK supplier ... in Weymouth Dorset.

And my reference to 25 tons was the weight of my boat NOT the Series Drogue ... !

 

[Aeolus]

ps there's someone on e-bay selling ready made cones if you want to lessen the effort. I bought my cones via e-bay and they seem reasonably well made (altho not sure if it's the same seller - I bought mine about 3 years ago (and still not finished making it!!!! no staying power))

 

[webcraft]

I don't know yet is the simple answer. I thought I might ask a more mathematically minded chum whether it was possible to extrapolate the Jordan figures to give sizes for c.6,000 lbs boat.

I don't suppose it would do any harm to have more cones on a longer line than you strictly need, but I suspect I'll give up making them when I think I've just crossed the threshold.

After consulation with Bryan we put 90 cones on ours for a Vega in cruising trim (probably 6000 - 6,500 lb). Didn't take too long for SWMBO to attach the cones.

We didn't bother tapering the rope - just used all 16mm nylon braid on braid.

- W

 

[Zanshin]

My 132-cone drogue for a 49-footer completely fills the inside of a Peli 1650 case with little room to spare. This includes the shackles and 4 parts of the drogue. I assembled and spliced the drogue myself, but did purchase the cones ready-made from oceanbrake.co.uk
I'll have more pictures at sv-Zanshin Jordan Series Drogue page soon.

My drogue (with hard eyes and a bit oversized doublebraid) weighs a bit over 45lbs.

 

[oldvarnish]

I'm getting interested.
If I made one for a 15,ooolb boat, how big a bundle would the drogue be. I'm thinking about stowage. Enough to fill a dustbin,or less?

 

[webcraft]

I'm getting interested.
If I made one for a 15,ooolb boat, how big a bundle would the drogue be. I'm thinking about stowage. Enough to fill a dustbin,or less?

The number of cones doesn't go up dramatically with displacement, neither does the length.

From Ace Sailmakers, who will make JSDs to order:

15,000 lb displacement: Drogue would have 107 cones on 179' line with a 75' leader; total of 254'. Line would be 5/8" nylon double braid tapering to ½" for the last 75 cones.

Ours fits in a medium holdall. Yours would fit in a slightly bigger holdall. Not a problem, and not too expensive if you just buy the cones and make the thing yourself. Ours cost us about £200 altogether 4 years ago.

More info HERE

- W

 

[Fascadale]

Ours fits in a medium holdall. Yours would fit in a slightly bigger holdall. Not a problem, and not too expensive if you just buy the cones and make the thing yourself. Ours cost us about £200 altogether 4 years ago.

- W

My current thinking is one braid on braid line for the leader and the cones with a hard eye for the shackled on chain. That would mean no joins in the rope. Unless there is a good case for having the whole thing in three parts with two joins: I don't think the weight saving would be very significant.

The bridle would have a hard eye at each end to take the shackles onto the hull fixings.

85/90 cones

I'm still not clear on the best way to join the leader to the bridle. I'm thinking a shackle between a hard eye on the end of the leader and hard eyes on the ends of the (cut in half) bridle. If that makes sense.

There is a photo here , post no.119 of one way of making this join. I'm not sure about the need for the swivel. ( I plead guilty to a bit of double posting)

 

[Aeolus]

I'd have thought that a single large shackle would suffice if you go the hard eye route. Can't see any benefit in the complex mechanism illustrated.