Joining Anchor Chain

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Maripose - if you had not had a weak link what would have been the outcome or your predicament? Would the anchor have been recovered? Would you have damaged your boat trying? Would you have lost all of you chain and warp?


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I would have tied off the chain with a length of rope to take the strain, slackened off the chain, and cut it free using my trusty rusty bolt-croppers. I was in the Med, the water was warm, but it was too deep for me to dive down (I tried).

The boat in question was a 9m Catalac and the chain was over a roller on the bridgdeck back to a manual S/L windlass. I'd like to point out that the Bruce was 'just' my lunchhook. I'd hauled in all my warp and about 5m of chain when it jammed straight up and down in 20m of water.

I do not believe the forces involved would have damaged the boat as I've seen yachts (okay, one) dragged under by screwing around its mooring and twisting the chain.

The bow roller must be held down by, what, 6 st/st bolts? The S/L windlass by the same, only bigger. Neither was going anywhere under the forces I could apply.

I knew there was a 'C' link fitted and wasn't all that surprised it gave up the ghost.

In home waters I would have buoyed and slipped the anchor and chain, and paid a diver to recover it.
 
Timb

And in light of all the above I recommend you purchase 20m of 8mm chain spliced to an equal length of octoplait. Attach the two 10m lengths to your other two anchors (you do have other anchors don't you?)

Otherwise, "You are the weakest link. Goodbye!" /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
I Apologize..

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Alain POIRAUD

I am sorry for posting my experiences - I thought that was the point of this forum.

I shall certainly be looking for a better C-link than Plastimo now, but a C-link it will remain.



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I apologize Pye_End, if my answer was a little bit (too much) aggressive..

But I've spent years fighting against dangerous practices related to anchoring and anchor rodes..

Chain failures due to a weak link, including these “C” links are quite common.

As “GMAC” says, perhaps some “C” links would be strong enough to meet the characteristics of the chain.. but MOST of them are MUCH weaker.. and how making the difference between a good and a bad one.. I did several time the experience.. asking a chandlery what I should use to attach two chains.. and 99% of the time, I have been suggested to use the “Plastimo” “C” link..

That’s the reason of my aggressivity.. If you are well informed, you will only select the “C” links suggested by Gmac.. but most of sailors are not informed at all about this problem.. and a bad “C” link looks absolutely similar to a good one..

A good ground tackle system is (to my opinion) a very important safety equipment aboard a boat and a very cheap “C” link can make all the difference..
 
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13250 chain joining link, Ø 8 mm
SWL (Safe Working Load) : 150 kg.
13251 chain joining link, Ø 10 mm
SWL (Safe Working Load) : 200 kg.
13252 chain joining link, Ø 12 mm
SWL (Safe Working Load) : 700 kg.
13253 chain joining link, Ø 14 mm
SWL (Safe Working Load) : 1100 kg.


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Above was copied from the Plastimo website about 5 minutes ago. www.plastimo.com

The difference between the website swl and the figure you give from their catalogue is amazing. I might e-mail them for clarification. 150kg does seem surprisingly low.

Anyway, based on what others have said, if I'm ever induced to buy one of these rivetted joining links I'm going to make damn sure it's a Crosby and not a Plastimo!
 
Hum. See what you mean. Catalogue has got 13250 as 1000Kg, 13251 as 1500Kg, 13252 as 1800Kg and 13253 as 2000Kg. As you say big difference.

Let me know the outcome of your e-mail as I may have to find a welder.....!

I have e-mailed Gael as they don't seem to publish their SWL - the fitting looks more substantail but that does not always tell you the whole story.

Bosun - http://www.bosunsupplies.com/products2.cfm?product=S0460 has got a stainless, and is quoting WLL (what is that?) in pounds. Seems pretty weak compared with the Plastimo catalogue. Is this expected out of stainless?

Not sure where else to look for comparrisons.

Alain - fair comment. Certainly made me look more closely about this issue.
 
The following link takes you to the catalogue of the American chain specialists ACCO. Not much use for buying in the UK, but interesting for looking at options available.
http://www.accochain.com/Chain-Catalog.pdf
I've used an acco connecting link and not lost any sleep over it, but I made sure it was properly closed and peened.
Such a pity that some people wade into these discussions with fists clenched and chin stuck out. Bad manners really. Don't let it spoil your day!
 
I wonder how many of our boat cleats even remotely approach the strength of the chain quoted above? none amongst the grp I would guess.
 
Good point! Probably better to have a proper samson post or bitts passing through the deck and extending down to a chock at the keel. [job 473 on my worklist]
 
Re: I Apologize..

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But I've spent years fighting against dangerous practices related to anchoring and anchor rodes..

Chain failures due to a weak link, including these “C” links are quite common.

As “GMAC” says, perhaps some “C” links would be strong enough to meet the characteristics of the chain.. but MOST of them are MUCH weaker.. and how making the difference between a good and a bad one.. I did several time the experience.. asking a chandlery what I should use to attach two chains.. and 99% of the time, I have been suggested to use the “Plastimo” “C” link..

That’s the reason of my aggressivity.. If you are well informed, you will only select the “C” links suggested by Gmac.. but most of sailors are not informed at all about this problem.. and a bad “C” link looks absolutely similar to a good one..

A good ground tackle system is (to my opinion) a very important safety equipment aboard a boat and a very cheap “C” link can make all the difference..

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Absolutly 99% right /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif. I'm just not to sure of the C link failures being 'quite common'. It could just be that we are a major supplier down this way and don't supply dodgy ones. Otherwise I'd fully agree with Alain.

Everyone now has to remember 4 very important things;
1, China is a massive manufacturer of most things and quality control is not their strong point.
2, We now live in a 'global village' wether we like it or not.
3, To compete with China many brand names ahve had to go there.
4, The swing has happened very quickly i.e less than 10 years.

Conclusions;
1, Chinese made can be very dodgy. To be fair some is OK or damn good but no much as yet.
2, Buy 'brand name' gear quite often means you are buying chinese made. Who mentioned Plastimo, Delta and many more??
3, Most people, including chandlery staff, have not caught up with all of this yet or don't realise the scale at which it is happening.

We specialise in chains, ropes and anchors. We pride ourselves on knowing a lot about each product we deal with, in some cases more than the manufacturer themselves (which we find a tad sad). We buy minimal stuff from china and are very very unlikely to put it on our own boats hence we would not put it on yours.

Hence my comments about the C Links and other items.

Saying all of that there is still some very good manufactuers making damn fine products, Crosby being one. I just hope they don't get 'rolled' by or into china as well.

The general 'quality' issue out there is something I try to mention whenever possible purely as information for those who don't realise hoping it may save boats or lives one day. I think Alain is also trying to do the same (this is not to say I won't say I think your wrong if you are Alain /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif).

As I always say, if in doubt ask questions and if you are not sure about the answer you got ask someone else. Simple questions like "what country is it made in?", "Can I see a test Certificate please?", "What do use on your boat?" (a handy one in chandleries sometimes) and one like that can tell you a lot about the product and/or the person selling it. If they can't answer the 1st question I'd be afraid.

Be careful of answers like "Oh it's made to Australian Standard". Down this way that is code for Made in China. If it is made in Australia why not say so?.

Summery;
There is plenty of good gear out there as there is plenty of crap. Unfortunatly it is now up to you, the purchaser, to be aware of what you are buying, the joys (????) of the global village sadly.

Oh yeah.... Crosby is worldwide and available in the UK, sorry I don't know exactly where but it is there. You will pay a bit more but your life is worth it, isn't it??
 
See the next (May) issue of YM for a full answer. C-links tested to destruction had less than half the strength of the chain to which they were attached. Those tested were Plastimo. I believe that links available in USA, e.g. West supplied, are probably stronger.
 
Did he use a "C" link??

DSCN0135.jpg
 
He should have had a 'K link'. obviously not :-) Looks like his snubber is quite long and a tad on the lite side :-)

K Links are very serious C links for real real big boats.

Nice photo though. You know where it is?
 
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Nice photo though. You know where it is?

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Thanks Gmac.. It's a photo of the wreck of the German cargo DESDEMONA S 54° 17’ 90’’ – W 066° 42’ 09’’ on Isla de Tierra del Fuego.

To by honest I'm not completely shure that the wrecking was really due to the failure of a "C" link in the chain?? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The "Snubber" is a fisherman net attached to the anchor..
 
Pye End

You wanted to know what answer I got from Plastimo. Here goes:-

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My question: Your 8mm Chain Joining Link is shown [on the Plastimo website] as having a Safe Working Load of only 150kg whereas the chain has a SWL of 1600kg. This means the Joining Link is less than 10% of the chain strength. Is this true?

Plastimo's answer: Hello, that appears to be a mistake, the correct safe working load for the chain joining link pn.13250 is 1000kg, it is still less than the chain.


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So your figure of 1000kg from the catalogue is the official one. Still not very encouraging though!
 
Thanks for this. From memory the YM article says it breaks at 1.75 to 1.95t anyway. Don't always see much of a correlation between SWL and the point at which they actually break. Since this is half that of the breaking point of the chain I am looking for a better quality one.

Mind you, one or two of the shakles didn't look too clever either.

I havn't had an answer from Gael. I have been trying to locate a good C-link as indicated on the thread, but have been as yet unsuccessful. E-mailed a couple of dealers last night, but havn't heard back.

If anyone else has found one then perhaps they can post it.

It seems as though replacing the link I had on there may have been a mistake.
 
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