Jet ski-ing Dangers

What\'s in a name?

Stick around please - we're learning from each other, I hope, despite a lot of steam being vented. This forum is about the only place we'd meet a Jet-Skier as you don't tend to hang about drinking beer at the back of your boats for hours after coming in.

PWC will never stick as a name because you can't pronounce it and the acronym isn't descriptive or mildly insulting.

Now if I have to put up with being called a raggie because I sail, and mobos are stinkies, becuase they are, then we just need a decent name for PWC'ers, that is just insulting enough to be fun, but not so insulting that it can't be adopted by the people themselves.

Hmmm....

Of course we all know what to call the irresponsible ones.
 
Re: PWC Dangers..

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Now: inciting them to attack me. I was entering harbour late evening. Not much else around. Jetski appears heading straight for me on collision course from port side. I alter course to make room - he alters course to stay on collision heading. I resume course to avoid him, he alters course again straight for me, making last minute turn so that his wash swamps me. Second episode six weeks later, very similar - completely unprovoked.

It was my first visit to that harbour this season.

Incitement on my part? . Please explain if you think I did anything to upset him - because he b+++++ well upset me!

Harbour Master at home HAS banned them. Harbour Master where this happened SAYS he will do something, but doesnt. Though I am told he has prosecuted one or two. He knows who the hoodlums are, but prefers to take their launch money. The only redeeming feature being that he charges more for Jetskis than any other boat being launched....

Didnt stop me getting wet...

PS for Keith b+++++ = blumin (what did you think it meant!), so dont pull the string for bad language - please!

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Despite my strong feelings I've kept quiet so far. I have also witnessed unprovoked 'attacks' and suffered one myself, recently. Sitting at anchor off Margate watching an air show in company with many other boats, and there are quite a few jetskis buzzing around but I suppose they are quieter than the aircraft! We're in the cockpit, eating lunch, suddenly become aware of jetski approaching v. fast from astern, passes us terrifyingly close and dumps wash all over us. Really really clever chap, wasn't he? And no chance at all of reading a serial number if there was one.
I could add that they all spent the entire air show buzzing around through the anchored boats (raggies and mobos). We were all there to watch the aircraft. I never saw one of them look up at all, so I don't really know why they chose that particular spot on the ocean, do you? Plenty of room a few hundred yards away.
 
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It does seem to me that Harbour masters are all or nothing...

They either do an outright ban, which is annoying and very unfair on good PWC users.

Or they don't ban anyone.

Does anyone know why this is? It seems to me that the problem users should get banned, not everyone, and that would solve the problem.
 
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Harbourmasters' boats are too slow to catch a Jetski and reg. numbers are too small to tell who's doing what for a distance. So the simple option is an outright ban, extended harbour by harbour until there aren't many legal places left.

Only other PWC'ers are likely to have a clue as to who is doing what, and what the reg. nos mean. Self-policing? or at least reporting to the authorities?
 
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I've kept out of this so far, since I normally sail in areas that are largely free of these pests, so I have only personally suffered occasional noise. If subjected to the sort of crass and, lets face it, bullying behaviour just described I think I would be tempted to take precautionary measures.

It was mentioned earlier that they do not like ingesting floating line... It seems to me that a largish "mat" of tied-together bits of polypropylene (gathered from almost any beach) could be trailed a suitable distance astern while anchoring. A piece of thin twine in the tow rope to act as a "fuse" and protect the boat from damage in the event of getting a "bite". Absolutely no danger to anyone acting responsibly, but an effective countermeasure for the idiots? If it became widely adopted practice, perhaps they would learn to avoid anchored craft? Pavlov's dogs and all that...
 
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I hope that was a joke.

Apart from wildlife getting tangled up, think about any boat passing and getting caught on your trap/line - it would be a danger to navigation.

Picture a windy day, your neighbour coming in to tie up and his little 5hp outboard got tangled up, without power wind/tide would leave him just floating out of control until he had time to quickly drop an anchor.

If it did trap a PWC, it would cause serious damage to the pump, drive and possibly the engine - the PWC would then need to involve the resources of the CG and rescue services to be freed and towed to safety.
 
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I tend to agree - let's leave the floating line ideas out - it would affect anybody at any speed. Now I quite like the apple-chucking idea - if they're close enough for you to hit them, then they're too close.
 
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I still favour paint guns - preferably with dayglo oil paints: 'Marked' PWCs can then be spotted at a distance and evasive or defensive action taken. Can also be identified by the HM/Police, coming ashore?
 
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Not a joke, just a suggestion from a theoretical perspective since I haven't personally been subjected to this particular type of antisocial behaviour. The key point that you seem to have missed is that I did say "at a suitable distance". I didn't specify what that is since I don't know how close JSs go to boats when they're trying to swamp them, but from previous posts I guess it's not far: 5m or so, maybe?

So we have something indigestible to JSs on a short, fused, line behind the anchored craft occupying a piece of water which nobody with any sense should ever be passing through at speed. Another boat attempting to anchor (very!) close astern would simply push the polypropylene aside, as would a passing dinghy.

On reflection, though, I should not have used the term "trap": that could be taken as meaning a deliberately concealed threat when the whole point is, of course, deterrence - in fact adding a bright marker would improve the set up.
 
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And what happens if this thin "fuse" breaks? will you retrieve trap that is now floating free, or just leave it to ensnare some other boat??

I really do hope you are joking.

These PWC owners have come over here, put over a very good point of view, well articulated, and what have you done?
You have come up with closed minded attitudes and stupid, dangerous ways to maim & kill.
To their credit they haven't risen to the bait.
The PWC contributers on here have done more to try and smooth the troubled waters than the rest of you.
I have welcomed their contribution. Don't you think it would do more to your cause to have these people on your side rather than go back and tell their mates what a bunch of (insert expletive here) those yotties are and carry on buzzing them 'cos they're all miserable buggers?

BTW I have never owned a PWC (although I did ride one once)

I do hope they continue to stay around and try and build some bridges.
 
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Well said Col! Some of the posts on here have been downright stupid. I've no doubt that they think that stringing piano wire across dirt bike tracks would also be fun! The skiers that have been on here really have been very fair. I subscribe to their forum and the discussion (now locked actually) has been very fair and balanced, but the comments made by certain posters on here have really upset them. They are just as frustrated regarding "rogue" skiers, they are conscious of the issues. There seem to be people on here with similar mentalities as those they are complaining about!!!!
 
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I've written three replies, and none of them are reasoned, so I'm not going to continue this discussion. Ropes, paint guns etc won't help anyone.

Although for a mad five second thought I can see the fun side of it, I just hope no one would ever consider doing it in real life.
 
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I can see the fun side of it, I just hope no one would ever consider doing it in real life.

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Trouble is, in real life they are getting away with doing it to US.

I actually have a lot of sympathy with those riders who have tried to convince us they are not ALL hooligans. Of course they are not, and like motorcyclists pick up a lot of the flack that the hooligan element of their sport attracts.

Unfortunately there are a large number of rogue PWCers who are making life difficult for the rest of us, and retaliation - appropriate or otherwise - will be the order of the day.
 
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I'm suprised no-one has mentined the PWP, they've done a hell of a lot of work with clubs, harbour masters and local authorities to try and manage the [safe and responsible] use of PWC.

http://www.pwp.org.uk

Its like any craft or vehicle - you wouldn't give someone a R1 motorbike or a Ferrari Enzo and let them loose on the M1 without having proved competence.

Licencing (and perphaps a competency test?)has gotta be the way to go for all craft along with insurance.

I have to say though we founded a PWC club in our area and went to our local boating and sailing club to discuss affiliation and what started of as quite a frosty reception turned out fine with education gained from both sides, good set of opened minded individuals. That said there are probably not as many PWC users in our area so they are not tainted as others obviously are.

When we have no legislation in the UK any damn fool can buy whatever he wants and take to the water and cause havoc regardless of craft.

Probably the only sensible thing to come out of Europe is the way they legislate the use of watercraft.....

Not sure about the retaliation comments though. Its not gonna do anyone any favours other than land someone in jail on a manslaughter or murder charge at worst or a bloody nose at best. I guess there is a rogue element everywhere, although spouting off on a forum is one thing doing it is another matter.
 
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To directly answer your question, "Yes, obviously", but what I had in mind for a fuse was something like 2 or 3mm terylene which would be most unlikely to break under normal circumstances.

You say that I "have come up with closed minded attitudes and stupid, dangerous ways to maim & kill". If you read my post more carefully you will see that I am suggesting adoption of a device posing no threat whatsoever to anyone who is not himself acting in a particularly stupid and dangerous way. Why do you consider that I have a "closed minded attitude"? I am exploring possible methods of deterring irresponsible antisocial behaviour which, as several others have pointed out from example, carries a real risk of causing injury or death. Why does consideration of practical ways of preventing this make you angry?

I welcome the input from JS users and would be happy to learn from them. I have never used a JS and have very limited knowledge of them. I would like to know, for example, how fast they can actually go. I would also like to know (as I asked previously) how close a JS should ideally pass / turn beside a boat to maximise the amount of water thrown into it: is it "as close as possible" or is the optimum distance greater to minimise water overshoot?

You ask "Don't you think it would do more to your cause to have these people on your side rather than go back and tell their mates what a bunch of (insert expletive here) those yotties are and carry on buzzing them 'cos they're all miserable buggers?" With respect, I think this is a little nieve. Firstly, as others have said, I have the impression that those posting here probably don't cause the problem - and they have already said that their mates don't either. Secondly, the psychology of bullying is such that the bully does not desist just because he learns that his victim is actually quite a nice guy; he is essentially selfish and only likely to be influenced by a perceived threat sufficiently strong to outweigh his pleasure at his victim's discomfort. In the situation under discussion I merely suggest that fear of having his expensive toy disabled might act as sufficient deterrent.
 
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You say that I "have come up with closed minded attitudes and stupid, dangerous ways to maim & kill". If you read my post more carefully you will see that I am suggesting adoption of a device posing no threat whatsoever to anyone who is not himself acting in a particularly stupid and dangerous way. Why do you consider that I have a "closed minded attitude"? I am exploring possible methods of deterring irresponsible antisocial behaviour which, as several others have pointed out from example, carries a real risk of causing injury or death. Why does consideration of practical ways of preventing this make you angry?



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In some wierd way I can see your point Dave, but I feel that a judge would not share your reasoning when, as a result of your "trap wire" snagging a PWC and that resulting in an injury (or death) of the rider (or someone else) as a result of the craft loosing control.
Being passed closely by another craft does not constitute assult or murder.. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
"Er yes m'lord..he was going to splash me...so I rigged a trap wire and now he's dead....what do you mean take him down?"

I never realised just how much sh*t you guys have to put up with..the morons who do this to other craft have no idea about anything..I've seen idiots at Lee reverse over a tow line, and then wonder why the engine has stopped.. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif, We regularly put up with numptys using our mored skis as a slalom course.. with remarks like "boring t##t" when we tell them to use the square miles of sea rather than the 10m just by the shore... so they go looking for cruisers I suppose.. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
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Sadly I feel despairing about this. I go sailing to get peace and quiet, and detest the noise that these machines make. I've been buzzed (most certainly unprovoked!!), and frightened for myself and my boat.

I totally accept there is a 'lunatic fringe' that cause most of the problems. Undoubtedly those people won't be joining the PWC clubs, or reading and posting here. Of course the PWC'ers who've come on here are the good guys, no question.

BUT I just can't see how the problems are ever going to be resolved. I don't want mass registration/legislation and police all over the water. The trouble-makers are a part of the social fabric of 2005 Britain, that's what.
 
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Not sure about the retaliation comments though. Its not gonna do anyone any favours other than land someone in jail on a manslaughter or murder charge at worst or a bloody nose at best. I guess there is a rogue element everywhere,

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Not suggesting its appropriate to retaliate, just that sooner or later it will start to happen - if not already. As an ex Biker, dont try to tell me some 'Fugboxers' (motorists) aren't out to get the next biker that comes into their sights regardless of who he is or how well he is behaving. A significant number of motorcycle accidents of the 'I never saw him' type are entirely deliberate, and in my last few years commuting on 2 wheels I had any number of near misses which were clearly deliberate - proved by the comments and gestures of the perpetrators. If you want to sample 'road rage' try commuting on 2 wheels - its a real eye opener! Its only time before PWCers start getting the same sort of treatment from boatowners fed up with having their day spoilt and their families frightened. Its human nature to want to be able to hit back.

As for training and licensing - why should one tiny sector of hooliganistic behaviour on the water cause all of us the cost and trouble of having to license ourselves and our boats? For that is the inevitable outcome of all this.
 
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