Jesters 2014, Plymouth - Newport R.I Preperation.

[JimDL]

I have registered for this although it's a long shot financially, especially getting time off work unpaid.

I have a 28 ft, GRP, fractional rig sloop built in 1970. I have no history with her and payed very little for her as a project. I'm assuming the keel bolts have never been replaced or the rigging. She has furling headsail gear (1985) the sails are quite good condition. The boom is not so great, mast looks ok.

She came with a 4 man life raft, GPS, Navtex, Log, tillerpilot, md11c inboard alledgedly rebuilt. Jack stay running pt to stb by companion way in cockpit, jack stays running fore to aft on pt and stb decks. Massive capacity whale gulper bilge pump which strangely pumps bilge water into the cockpit. Bought 4 new life jackets, harnesses etc.

So pretty good start I think, although she needs an interior refit. Adding a collision bulkhead and sealing lockers below the water line.

I will need a steering vane, back up tillerpilot, spare sails, fuel, water, food, charts, GPS, engine spares, flares, new VHF, halyards, sheets, insurance, spray hood, storm shutters, spare tiller, new foul weather gear, AIS, EPIRB, Hire a SAT phone, emergency forestay.

Crickey- the list goes on.

I could raise some refit money by selling my motorcycle ( v-strom 1000) I have ridden to the Sahara this year. But this would be a last resort. Otherwise it's just hardwork and hope.

Any suggestions or help would be gratefuly received please.

I'm considering using the trip to raise money for charity.

Thanks Jim

 

[ScallywagII]

Hi Jim,

I hope to see you on the starting line, and in Newport. The list will get longer, but you can make some savings. Get yourself a shopping list and you will find many items turn up at boat jumbles. My sprayhood cost £20 new, if a little shop soiled. I had to make the hoops, but they only came to £10, and a bit of messing about to bend them around a former. If you live in a boating area, you might find lots of bargains appear at car boot sales. I picked up a working tiller pilot for £3 and 34 admiralty charts for a tenner, lots more besides.

The most expensive item on your list is the vane gear, but your boat will probably sail OK with sheet to tiller steering. Just make sure you have some eyes in the cockpit. I set off on a transatlantic crossing with a vane gear that sooon failed, but managed fine without it. See my videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DukgqTCrGhs
There is lots more on Youtube, look for sheet to tiller steering. There is no need to screw cleats to the tiller, which would weaken it, just wrap several turns of bungee around it. Similarly the sheets can be attached with a clove hitch. That allows the attachement point to be shfted along the tiller to change the mechanical advantage. To windward, just the bungee is needed. More details of my systems are on my blog:

A satellite phone may be desirable for some, but is not by any means essential. A shortwave radio provides good company with stations from Australia, NZ, Canada and many others as well as the BBC World service. It can be linked to an inexpensive laptop or notebook to provide weatherfax maps. All this is well proven low cost stuff. The laptop can also be loaded with a chart program. A USB GPS will then turn it into a backup GPS and chart plotter. Hard drives are the most vulnerable component on computers at sea, so you can pick up a second hand one with a duff HD and sustitute a solid state drive. These are not damaged by banging around, and use a lot less power.

Don't let the cost of things put you off. I am sure there is plenty of work to keep you going for a while.

Good luck

Len

 

[ScallywagII]

video link

The you tube link which disappeared from the previous post is: http://www.youtube.com/user/scallywagII check the self steering with a quartering wind and self steering with twin headsails.

Len

 

[JimDL]

Thanks Len, very grateful for your advise and your videos are very inspiring. I will certainly do some more research with the steering method. Simple, cheap and effective. Sounds perfect for my needs.

I,m in Poole, I see you're Southampton, it would be great if you could afford the time to meet up? I would love to hear some stories and get some much needed advise.

Thanks Jim

 

[puckertoe]

As you say the list keeps growing, I have just begun taking things apart, and keep thinking of things I have to do before putting it all back together. I now have a Corribee with no windows what to put in their place. Do you think Polycarbonate 12mm not in frames, or do I go for ply wood blanks with Port holes, or put the originals back and make polycarbonate storm shutters? It all cost about the same. At the moment I'm thinking that plywood with portholes is going to be the easier of the options from a me making it point of view. Any comments or suggestions welcome.
Jane

 

[JimDL]

The dreaded list, I've actually had sleepless nights thinking of the jobs list, financing etc.

I'm not sure about your windows Jane, bit of a personal preference I think. Maybe cost wise I would consider using the originals (depending on condition etc) and making some ply storm covers that could be fixed in place over the top some how if needed. Maybe some others will have some ideas. I have been having similar thoughts about my windows.

Jim

 

[puckertoe]

Hi Jim
Yes there is so much to think of, I used tokeep a note book by my bed when I had loads to do, that way I could wake up and write down on the list something I thought of. Then go to sleep spoundly. On the other hand May be its good training for the Jester to keep waking up!?
As for window, Ive considered ply storm boards but don't fancy being in the dark. What stage are you at btw? Have you begun your boat yet?

 

[JimDL]

Hi Jane, no I've not started yet. I'm just working hard doing overtime to build up some money to get me going properly. I'm thinking a month of ploughing in the hours at work and then get Goldeneye lifted out. I have to replace the keel bolts and standing, running rigging first then get on with re sealing windows, rewire etc so plenty to do. I'm hoping to get the big jobs done before Easter so I can still sail whilst getting the other jobs done.

I know what you mean about the storm boards, maybe make some ply boards with a small viewing slot in, they could always be glassed over and gelled for extra strength. Keeping cost in mind.

 

[puckertoe]

Thanks Jim
I never thought of that, you mean make a sort of glassed area in the plywood to let light in?
I'm lucky as I sold a business last year, so am eaking out my money to do the yacht up, but It's seems to be my budgeting isn't so good, or maybe cost of materials is just really high now.
I made a start today ( It almost stopped rainging for an hour!) and have so far taken out a few bits that I hope to ebay to raise some funds for the windows. I too am hoping to get the yacht back together for Easster or at least May for a summer of sailing to Norway or some such with my daughter. Then finish off next winter for the JC.in May. Husband is also helping out with redesigning my electrics, I'm ditching as much equipment as possible. Thinking that minimal is the best way to go.
Thanks for the ideas
Jane

 

[JimDL]

That's an idea, I was just thinking of a slot in the wood and then overlay the wood with fibre glass for extra strength. I guess another way would be to use some window material to double up the thickness of your existing windows, maybe more expensive but at least you won't be taking up space below with storm shutters and you won't be at risk trying to fit them if its rough.
Jim

 

[c2518]

I've been researching the use of Lexan for storm shutters which would be left permanently fitted. Take a look at the www.theplasticshop.co.uk
I know that the use of Lexan in the US is popular and figure it will allow lit to the cabin whilst upgrading the protection levels. I am particularly looking at the Lexan Margard as it is abrasive resistant, goodnUV levels and comes in a 12mm sheet. Just have to get my own window frames out make up some templates and get the prices.

 

[c2518]

Ouch!just got an email price for a single 3000x2000mm 12mm sheet and it costs more than I paid for Osprey in the first place so now have to find alternative (unless someone has three 600x200mm off cuts going cheap)

 

[ScallywagII]

polycarbonate windows

12 mm polycarbonate sounds like overkill to me. I have tried to break a 6mm piece by hitting very hard with a big sledge hammer, no use. 6mm polycarbonate will be considerably stronger than the surrounding GRP or plywood storm covers. Scallywag had the original perspex windows in caravan type rubber surrounds. The perspex was crazed and the rubber perishing. I took the rubber out and cut polycarbonate oversize, allowing a 30 mm overlap. Without the rubber, the windows let a lot more light in and vastly improved visibility from inside the cabin. I cut the polycarbonate at about a 60 degree angle so that it would shed water and rounded the corner with a sander.

I used 5mm stainless pan head screws and nuts with washers inside and out. Drill the polycarbonate 1 mm oversize. I drilled and tapped the fibreglass to make it easier to fit, but it was still a 2 person job to fit the nuts and tighten them. I tried mastic from Towsure, but it was difficult to work around corners, so did the rest of the windows with silicone. It is not the most elegant solution, but is simple and very strong. I can't remember who I got the poly from, but it was a firm somewhere up north who cut the size you need, so you don't pay for the waste. The price compared very well with buying from a local supplier who only cuts full, half or quarter sheets. I would make paper templates of the sizes you need, stack them together with as little waste as possible then get quotes on these sizes.

Good luck with it.

Len

 

[Gargleblaster]

Scallywag makes some good points. Particularly about letting light into your cabin. Sometimes the weather can be a little ferocious and you may not want to spend your whole day in the cockpit. Whatever you are doing in the cabin it is good to have some light to do it by. It can be the case that you may want to keep your washboards in to keep the waves out of the cabin for a few days this can result in a bit of 'cabin fever' - the more light you have or are occupied the less impact 'cabin fever' will have. I have found the worst thing I can do is listen do the breaking waves approach the boat and then bang into it. If I can get deep enough into a good book I can ignore the environment in which I find myself.

I don't know what the windows on my UFO27 are. But they are tinted plastic of some kind that overlap the fibreglass and are then bolted through. Whoever fitted them did a good job as they have never let any water in and I have never felt the need to reinforce them in any way. Although they are only 9 inches deep they are over 3 feet long. Perhaps they are about 10mm thick though. All sizes are guesses as I am nowhere near my boat currently.

My fallback position if a window did break under the force of a wave was to screw one of plywood berth hatches over the broken window - even though none of my berth hatches are quite as long as my windows. I would have made something fit if needed.

 

[ScallywagII]

let there be light!

The issue of light in the cabin was important when I was working on Scallywag's insides. As was the fashion in the 70s, there was lots of dark varnished woodwork inside. I painted a lot of it white, particularly inconspicuous places, like inside lockers, under lockers and down the quarterberths. You don't see the surfaces much, but they absorb a lot of light. A light colour inside lockers also helps geatly when you need to find anything. It is certainly a lot more pleasant below than before the refit.

I also had some polycarbonate that I cut some passage washboards from. It is quite thin, and although I am satisfied that it is for all practical purposes unbreakable, I am a bit concerned that a big enough wave could concievably flex it enough to pop it in. I will be replacing it with some 8mm which is pretty rigid. Also I have a solid fibreglass forehatch. I cut a hole in the top and put a piece of tinted polycarbonate over that as well. Like John I read a lot when conditions were pretty bumpy and was very glad of decent light.

Len

 

[Rossynant]

May I add a bit?
Nice way to let additional light into cabin is to take the gelcoat off the - after all - fiberglass - then GRP should be painted with polyurethane varnish with high UV filter for protection, though my boat has such decklights originally made, seem not painted with anything, only surface a bit weathered after 40 years.
BTW solid fiberglass hatches both have them - no need to cut existing cower to put a window in, unless it's for lookout - sanding down to GRP is all that's necessary


Yes, polycarbonate is flexy and moreover it can flex permanently with ease, so it's better to choose thickness for desired stiffness then for strength (which will be enough then); same principle as with GRP for hull. But it's prone to scratching and UV, must be hardcoated and such, usually is. Costly, but don't know prices now. A point to consider - cutting (and other working) handmade with normal tools creates material flaws (internal stresses, microcracks, however the name for this in english), it should be done in raised temperature if strength is important. Sometime this can be seen around drill holes.

Perspex (plexi, acrylic) may be as good a choice - it is less impact resistant, but not so much as usually thought - if this is not point impact but a wave crest slap More thickness of material may be used to overcame difference.
Easy to work with, more resistant otherwise, to scratching, UV etc, so no special treatments required - any product brand at hand can be used. Good longevity - secondhand may even be used (if looking good) for extras like additional storm covers or spare washboards. This all makes it cheaper solution.

For required thickness of window according to opening size, for small boats, there were classification rules provided time ago, like Lloyd's, Germanisher lloyd or Norske Veritas. On boats made to those (with perspex) I've never heard of window breaking and seen a boat with cracked cabin side (in capsize somewhere at Horn) but no damage to windows in it Rule of thumb was perspex twice the thickness of GRP around it for big openings.

Existing window may be strengthened with foil glued on (like those bullet-proof windows), heard any will help, like that for tinting car windows. But best way is foil on the inside, before fitting the window on.

Hope this will be of use for someone

 

[Myk]

Why not glue the new windows in place. Every hole you drill is a potential crack waiting to start, then all the bolts/screws need to be evenly tensioned or again the can be a source of future trouble. Also every hole is a potential leak. Most modern boat windows are glued in now so why not take advantage of the new adhesive systems available. I just replaced the windows in my boat with polycarbonate and glued them in with Sika-295 UV and the primer 206 G+P

 

[PacketRat]

Thinking that minimal is the best way to go.

Agree.

Windows: I found a discarded polycarbonate window in the boatyard and tried smashing it up. This stuff is virtually indesctructible. I'd already fitted perspex, unfortunately. If you can, fit polycarbonate. It doesn't stay shiny and glass like as well as perspex, but if you put a bit in a vice and give it some welly with a hammer, you'll see what I mean.

If there's any curvature to your windows, then perspex will eventually grow some cracks. Once removed, I was able to snap my old forward facing perspex window alarmingly easily. The vertical cracks weren't just surface blemishes as I thought, they were a real weakness.

Robin.

 

[JimDL]

Great advice and ideas thank you, please keep them coming.

 

[Rum Run]

If you can supply a dimensioned drawing then there are specialist companies that will laser cut the shape for you. Assuming it is a material they have in stock you will normally only pay for the area used an the cutting charge.
If anyone needs help with this, do a search for Wyvern Technical Services and make contact with the owner. (me ) I am sympathetic to the Challenge and may be able to prepare CAD drawings and make arrangements for free - The actual parts will still cost but that is between you and the supplier.

Ouch!just got an email price for a single 3000x2000mm 12mm sheet and it costs more than I paid for Osprey in the first place so now have to find alternative (unless someone has three 600x200mm off cuts going cheap)